Committee
Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 07 December 2023
07 Dec 2023 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Historic Environment Strategy
That is an excellent question, which leads on from my response to the earlier questions about the new model that HES is developing. Officials from the Scottish Government, as the sponsorship body, are working with HES on that and supporting it to do that. They are in the throes of redeveloping that business model as we speak, and they want to ensure that it delivers a high-quality, sustainable and equitable service for the people of Scotland. Sustainability now becomes even more important, particularly in this financial environment, where everyone is feeling it tough when it comes to budget. The Built Environment Forum Scotland has created a sustainable investment toolkit, which any of our heritage organisations can use. That was created as a result of the predecessor strategy, “Our Place in Time”. That toolkit has been designed to assess societal and economic opportunities and the environmental potential of our built heritage. As I explained earlier, the way in which HES is set up creates some challenges. If it raises additional revenue, that has an impact on the grant that it gets from Government. That is the legal framework, which is a result of how it was set up. As I said, we are working closely with and supporting HES in this work. It is looking at income forecasts and how income can be increased, without the impact on its grant aid from the Scottish Government, which can be a disincentive. Therefore, I am not surprised that HES was not that forthcoming, because the current business model does not allow it to take full advantage of those opportunities. We are working with HES and finance and exchequer colleagues to look at ways to create flexibilities. In a very tough financial environment, opportunities for revenue raising become very important, particularly for sustainability but also for investment in those assets and the ability for HES to hold reserves. Those things are all in play in that work. HES is also leading the way on public sector and public services reform, particularly as a public body in that landscape. Therefore, we are looking at ways in which it can become an exemplar for other public bodies. We are looking at new, innovative and flexible ways in which it can raise more revenue and raise its profile and the understanding of some of the amazing heritage that we have and how it can invest that revenue back into the work that it is doing, particularly on preserving, sustaining and maintaining cultural assets for the future.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Convener
Con
Item 2 is an evidence session on the historic environment strategy, “Our Past, Our Future: The Strategy for Scotland’s Historic Environment”. We are joined t...
The Minister for Culture, Europe and International Development (Christina McKelvie)
SNP
Thank you, convener, and please pass on my best wishes to both Mark and Clare. Thank you for inviting me to give evidence to the committee. As the “Our Past...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Thank you very much, minister, for that statement. I have a question about the impact of closures and restricted access. HES updated the committee last week...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I know that that issue is close to your heart, convener, and to the hearts of many members, not just of the committee but across the chamber. I gave a bit o...
The Deputy Convener
Con
What can the Scottish Government do to support local communities that might have been affected by that situation?
Christina McKelvie
SNP
Much of the work that has been done at some of those sites has been done with local communities. It is about asking what people want to see from a historic s...
The Deputy Convener
Con
I want to ask you about the phrase “managed decline”, which has been mentioned. In your opening statement, you referred to climate change and the transition ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
That is not a term that I have ever used or one that I have heard since I came into the job in March. I have heard it spoken about, but not by people who man...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Good. I turn to questions from colleagues.
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
In your opening statement, you spoke about effective engagement, collaboration and partnership. All of those things are vital. Last week, we had the opportu...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I agree that participation is incredibly important. You will know that the strategy was developed over the summer of 2022, and that participation was at the ...
Alexander Stewart
Con
To make everything work, we need to have the resources, manpower and finances. We have touched on short and medium-term financial planning for the organisati...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
You will not be surprised to hear me say that the current budget round is incredibly tough. However, putting that aside for a second, in 2023-24, the operati...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, minister. In your opening comments, you said that the shortage of skills has become an even more important issue in the past few years. You tal...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
A combination of things are going on. We have skills challenges in this area generally. One issue that has arisen is the need to create opportunities for you...
Neil Bibby
Lab
It is clear that we need greater investment in skills, and the evidence that we have received backs that up. I welcome the meetings that you are having with ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
We are working on that information as we speak. On 13 November, Historic Environment Scotland engaged a new programme management team, which includes a data ...
Neil Bibby
Lab
I welcome that. We need to understand more about the shortfalls that exist as regards skills and the investment that is required, so I look forward to receiv...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Two weeks ago, we received highly compelling evidence from Bryan Dixon of the National Trust for Scotland, who said: “Even if the NTS had the finances to de...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
We recognise that there is a challenge there and that we must do something about it. I hope that the committee recognises the work that has been done over th...
Jim Fairlie
SNP
There is a wee issue that I am curious about. We have just finished building our house, and the biggest problem that we had was getting people to do the ston...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I would always welcome and agree to such an opportunity, but the announcements that we have heard in the past few days on the new immigration measures that t...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning, minister. Given that HES has been making more money, I was pleased to hear you say that you are looking at the idea of HES being able to keep a...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
That is an excellent question, which leads on from my response to the earlier questions about the new model that HES is developing. Officials from the Scot...
Keith Brown
SNP
Thanks for that, and that is encouraging but, first of all—this might not be the view of the whole committee—the idea of public bodies accumulating reserves ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
Any positive approach is possible. I suspect that HES’s imagination has been tempered by the current legal set-up for its operating model. From 2024-25, it w...
The Deputy Convener
Con
I was not aware that Alex Paterson had moved on. I hope that the grilling from the committee last week did not play a role in that.
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I am sure that it did not.
The Deputy Convener
Con
I am sure that it did not. We are grateful for the evidence that he gave. I endorse what Keith Brown said about the need to turbocharge the possibilities t...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
I have a question about the strategy’s laudable aims. The strategy picks up on aims that all Scotland should pull together to try to deliver, such as transit...