Committee
Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 07 December 2023
07 Dec 2023 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Historic Environment Strategy
A combination of things are going on. We have skills challenges in this area generally. One issue that has arisen is the need to create opportunities for young people and other people to develop such skills. Just yesterday, Graeme Dey and I met the Historic Environment Scotland team, because, over the past few months, his officials and my officials have been working to address all the concerns that have been raised. Following the Withers review and the other work that Graeme Dey spoke about in his recent statement on developing skills and the skills landscape, we have been working to find ways in which we can tackle some of those challenges. When it comes to apprenticeships for those areas, particularly stonemasonry, we are talking about a maximum of 30 apprentices a year, and there are 27 right now. We are working closely with Skills Development Scotland, the Scottish Funding Council and the Construction Industry Training Board to develop the framework. A bit of work is being done right now on the qualification framework and whether it reflects professionalism and the way in which we want to hold those skills in our training formats. With the Scottish Qualifications Authority, we have agreed to look at how we develop that professional framework. When the qualifications are of those standards, it makes the whole apprenticeship programme much more attractive for people who seek those skills. That piece of work is being undertaken right now and I had a meeting on that with Graeme Dey just yesterday. I do not deny that there are challenges, including around how we deliver some of that work in a rural setting. You will know that Historic Environment Scotland is working with CITB and other bodies in Elgin and in Stirling at the Engine Shed, and we have been having a conversation about developing a centre of excellence. Nothing is agreed on that yet, but we are exploring all the ideas that will create the circumstances in which people will be encouraged to come into the roles and the framework for them to have qualifications when they come out on the other side. Over the next few weeks, we will continue those conversations with Mr Dey, his team and HES. I am meeting HES next week to follow up on all that. The issue is live right now. Nothing has been agreed yet, but lots of ideas have been coming in. If you have some of your own, please share them.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Convener
Con
Item 2 is an evidence session on the historic environment strategy, “Our Past, Our Future: The Strategy for Scotland’s Historic Environment”. We are joined t...
The Minister for Culture, Europe and International Development (Christina McKelvie)
SNP
Thank you, convener, and please pass on my best wishes to both Mark and Clare. Thank you for inviting me to give evidence to the committee. As the “Our Past...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Thank you very much, minister, for that statement. I have a question about the impact of closures and restricted access. HES updated the committee last week...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I know that that issue is close to your heart, convener, and to the hearts of many members, not just of the committee but across the chamber. I gave a bit o...
The Deputy Convener
Con
What can the Scottish Government do to support local communities that might have been affected by that situation?
Christina McKelvie
SNP
Much of the work that has been done at some of those sites has been done with local communities. It is about asking what people want to see from a historic s...
The Deputy Convener
Con
I want to ask you about the phrase “managed decline”, which has been mentioned. In your opening statement, you referred to climate change and the transition ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
That is not a term that I have ever used or one that I have heard since I came into the job in March. I have heard it spoken about, but not by people who man...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Good. I turn to questions from colleagues.
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
In your opening statement, you spoke about effective engagement, collaboration and partnership. All of those things are vital. Last week, we had the opportu...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I agree that participation is incredibly important. You will know that the strategy was developed over the summer of 2022, and that participation was at the ...
Alexander Stewart
Con
To make everything work, we need to have the resources, manpower and finances. We have touched on short and medium-term financial planning for the organisati...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
You will not be surprised to hear me say that the current budget round is incredibly tough. However, putting that aside for a second, in 2023-24, the operati...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, minister. In your opening comments, you said that the shortage of skills has become an even more important issue in the past few years. You tal...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
A combination of things are going on. We have skills challenges in this area generally. One issue that has arisen is the need to create opportunities for you...
Neil Bibby
Lab
It is clear that we need greater investment in skills, and the evidence that we have received backs that up. I welcome the meetings that you are having with ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
We are working on that information as we speak. On 13 November, Historic Environment Scotland engaged a new programme management team, which includes a data ...
Neil Bibby
Lab
I welcome that. We need to understand more about the shortfalls that exist as regards skills and the investment that is required, so I look forward to receiv...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Two weeks ago, we received highly compelling evidence from Bryan Dixon of the National Trust for Scotland, who said: “Even if the NTS had the finances to de...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
We recognise that there is a challenge there and that we must do something about it. I hope that the committee recognises the work that has been done over th...
Jim Fairlie
SNP
There is a wee issue that I am curious about. We have just finished building our house, and the biggest problem that we had was getting people to do the ston...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I would always welcome and agree to such an opportunity, but the announcements that we have heard in the past few days on the new immigration measures that t...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning, minister. Given that HES has been making more money, I was pleased to hear you say that you are looking at the idea of HES being able to keep a...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
That is an excellent question, which leads on from my response to the earlier questions about the new model that HES is developing. Officials from the Scot...
Keith Brown
SNP
Thanks for that, and that is encouraging but, first of all—this might not be the view of the whole committee—the idea of public bodies accumulating reserves ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
Any positive approach is possible. I suspect that HES’s imagination has been tempered by the current legal set-up for its operating model. From 2024-25, it w...
The Deputy Convener
Con
I was not aware that Alex Paterson had moved on. I hope that the grilling from the committee last week did not play a role in that.
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I am sure that it did not.
The Deputy Convener
Con
I am sure that it did not. We are grateful for the evidence that he gave. I endorse what Keith Brown said about the need to turbocharge the possibilities t...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
I have a question about the strategy’s laudable aims. The strategy picks up on aims that all Scotland should pull together to try to deliver, such as transit...