Committee
Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 07 December 2023
07 Dec 2023 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Historic Environment Strategy
I agree that participation is incredibly important. You will know that the strategy was developed over the summer of 2022, and that participation was at the heart of it. It was developed by Historic Environment Scotland, but the Scottish Government, the Built Environment Forum Scotland and many other organisations and people with an interest were also involved. There was a public consultation at that point, and HES published its “We Asked, You Said, We Did” report, which was a way of conveying to the people who engaged with the consultation process how important their ideas were. In that process, the point was raised about people not knowing what was on their doorstep and getting to know what was on their doorstep. 09:45 In my response to the deputy convener, I talked about my intention to work closely with local authorities. Many of the properties that HES looks after are also looked after by local authorities. For instance, Chatelherault country park in my constituency is incredibly well looked after by South Lanarkshire Council. That is one example, but members will all have examples from their constituencies of the partnership between local government and HES and therefore the Scottish Government, which is incredibly important. One thing that I wanted to do when I came into my current role was to reinvigorate the culture conveners forum. We have done that, and the forum has now met. We decided immediately that we needed to have an event to look at how we work together and the value of culture in all of our lives. That will be called a culture value summit, which is a straightforward name for it, and it will happen in the new year. That is very important. I am interested in the local authority historic environment group that Alexander Stewart mentioned. I have not heard of that and it has not been mentioned by any of the culture conveners—I think that I met them all in that meeting just a few weeks ago. However, I will pick up the point and see where that group got to. In big cities such as Edinburgh or Glasgow, the historic environment is everywhere. In fact, most of the authorities in those places work in buildings that are part of the historic environment, because the city chambers are important buildings. However, that comes with challenges when there are issues with the buildings and local authorities are involved in their clean-up and restoration. That partnership is important to me. I want to strengthen and grow it, but I want to work together much more dynamically to tackle the challenges that are coming down the road and we can do that only in partnership. There is no way that being separate from local government on the issue would deal with those challenges. I will take away the issue about the local historic environment group and speak to Councillor Maureen Chalmers, with whom I work closely, as she is the chair of the community wellbeing board.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Convener
Con
Item 2 is an evidence session on the historic environment strategy, “Our Past, Our Future: The Strategy for Scotland’s Historic Environment”. We are joined t...
The Minister for Culture, Europe and International Development (Christina McKelvie)
SNP
Thank you, convener, and please pass on my best wishes to both Mark and Clare. Thank you for inviting me to give evidence to the committee. As the “Our Past...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Thank you very much, minister, for that statement. I have a question about the impact of closures and restricted access. HES updated the committee last week...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I know that that issue is close to your heart, convener, and to the hearts of many members, not just of the committee but across the chamber. I gave a bit o...
The Deputy Convener
Con
What can the Scottish Government do to support local communities that might have been affected by that situation?
Christina McKelvie
SNP
Much of the work that has been done at some of those sites has been done with local communities. It is about asking what people want to see from a historic s...
The Deputy Convener
Con
I want to ask you about the phrase “managed decline”, which has been mentioned. In your opening statement, you referred to climate change and the transition ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
That is not a term that I have ever used or one that I have heard since I came into the job in March. I have heard it spoken about, but not by people who man...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Good. I turn to questions from colleagues.
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
In your opening statement, you spoke about effective engagement, collaboration and partnership. All of those things are vital. Last week, we had the opportu...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I agree that participation is incredibly important. You will know that the strategy was developed over the summer of 2022, and that participation was at the ...
Alexander Stewart
Con
To make everything work, we need to have the resources, manpower and finances. We have touched on short and medium-term financial planning for the organisati...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
You will not be surprised to hear me say that the current budget round is incredibly tough. However, putting that aside for a second, in 2023-24, the operati...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, minister. In your opening comments, you said that the shortage of skills has become an even more important issue in the past few years. You tal...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
A combination of things are going on. We have skills challenges in this area generally. One issue that has arisen is the need to create opportunities for you...
Neil Bibby
Lab
It is clear that we need greater investment in skills, and the evidence that we have received backs that up. I welcome the meetings that you are having with ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
We are working on that information as we speak. On 13 November, Historic Environment Scotland engaged a new programme management team, which includes a data ...
Neil Bibby
Lab
I welcome that. We need to understand more about the shortfalls that exist as regards skills and the investment that is required, so I look forward to receiv...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Two weeks ago, we received highly compelling evidence from Bryan Dixon of the National Trust for Scotland, who said: “Even if the NTS had the finances to de...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
We recognise that there is a challenge there and that we must do something about it. I hope that the committee recognises the work that has been done over th...
Jim Fairlie
SNP
There is a wee issue that I am curious about. We have just finished building our house, and the biggest problem that we had was getting people to do the ston...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I would always welcome and agree to such an opportunity, but the announcements that we have heard in the past few days on the new immigration measures that t...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning, minister. Given that HES has been making more money, I was pleased to hear you say that you are looking at the idea of HES being able to keep a...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
That is an excellent question, which leads on from my response to the earlier questions about the new model that HES is developing. Officials from the Scot...
Keith Brown
SNP
Thanks for that, and that is encouraging but, first of all—this might not be the view of the whole committee—the idea of public bodies accumulating reserves ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
Any positive approach is possible. I suspect that HES’s imagination has been tempered by the current legal set-up for its operating model. From 2024-25, it w...
The Deputy Convener
Con
I was not aware that Alex Paterson had moved on. I hope that the grilling from the committee last week did not play a role in that.
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I am sure that it did not.
The Deputy Convener
Con
I am sure that it did not. We are grateful for the evidence that he gave. I endorse what Keith Brown said about the need to turbocharge the possibilities t...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
I have a question about the strategy’s laudable aims. The strategy picks up on aims that all Scotland should pull together to try to deliver, such as transit...