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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 22 November 2023

22 Nov 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Parliamentary Bureau Motions
Lumsden, Douglas Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

At committee, I raised concerns about the SSI. Those concerns remain, and I would like to raise them again today.

Let me make it clear from the outset that I remain a big fan of heat networks. I am convinced that heat networks will have a huge part to play in decarbonising our buildings, especially in our more densely populated cities, where, for example, having heat pumps in tenement blocks will not be viable. I also speak as a formal council leader, from which role I have experience of heat network installation, so I know how difficult and expensive they are to roll out.

The partial business and regulatory impact assessment sets out a cost of up to £6.2 billion to reach this target by 2035. It also states that that cost excludes any adaptations that may be required within existing buildings, so the final costs will be much higher than the £6.2-billion price tag quoted. When the minister was questioned about that figure at committee, he stated that the Government will be committing only £300 million towards it, so we are left unclear as to where the remaining sums will come from and how achievable that target will be.

The impact assessment also sets out the role that our local authorities will play. I remain concerned that, with our local authorities being underfunded and council tax being frozen, they will not be able to fulfil the function that we require them to take on, especially given that the costs for adaptation of existing buildings are not captured by the assessment, and many of those buildings will be owned by our local authorities.

I also note, from the policy note accompanying the SSI, that the local authorities’ local heat and energy strategies will play into the national target, but not all local authorities have completed those strategies. It seems strange to set the target without that information.

We also have no details on where the 7TWh in the policy comes from. I worry that the target that would be set out today, like so many of this devolved Government’s targets, is aspirational but, without more detail, simply unachievable. The SNP-Green Government needs to understand that setting targets is one thing, but it is delivery that counts. More details are urgently required.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S6M-11375, on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument. I ask George Adam, on be...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Russell Findlay to speak to the motion, for up to three minutes. 17:34
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Government enacted a range of temporary powers in April 2020, at the start of the pandemic. Some of those powers were indeed temporary; however,...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay Con
Do I have time to take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
A brief one, Mr Findlay.
Pauline McNeill Lab
In addition to what the member has said, Labour has challenged several times whether the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service needs up to 260 days to p...
Russell Findlay Con
That is another good reason to vote against the SSI, and I note that, in the committee, Labour voted alongside the Conservatives in opposition to it. This i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Angela Constance to respond, for up to three minutes. 17:37
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
I attended the Criminal Justice Committee on Wednesday 8 November, and explained the approach taken by the Scottish Government in respect of this instrument....
Russell Findlay Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Angela Constance SNP
Do I have time, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you a little bit of time back.
Russell Findlay Con
I have to disagree with the cabinet secretary’s assertion. The statement from the Government to the committee was that the increase would be for “a wider r...
Angela Constance SNP
As I have confirmed to Mr Findlay—not once but now twice—the increased fine rate applies to the same offences. On Mr Findlay’s issue about cases, the fiscal...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, cabinet secretary. The question on the motion will be put at decision time. The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau mo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Douglas Lumsden. 17:41
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
At committee, I raised concerns about the SSI. Those concerns remain, and I would like to raise them again today. Let me make it clear from the outset that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
For clarity, we are referring to motion S5M-11376, not motion S5M-11375. I call the minister to respond. 17:44
The Minister for Zero Carbon Buildings, Active Travel and Tenants’ Rights (Patrick Harvie) Green
I am grateful for the chance to respond to the points that have been raised on the SSI. It is an order that supports our ambition to grow the number and scal...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Patrick Harvie Green
I want to make some progress. Meeting the cost will be achieved through a mix of public and private investment. That point should be well understood by anyo...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Will the minister give way on that point?
Patrick Harvie Green
No, thank you. The private investment will be driven by creating demand for heat networks. The funding that we have currently allocated to heat networks is ...
Douglas Lumsden Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The minister is concluding.
Patrick Harvie Green
For example, Glasgow’s LHEES identifies that heat networks there have the potential to supply between 1TWh and 4TWh of the city’s heat annually. We have laun...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude, minister.
Patrick Harvie Green
Collectively, those actions will help us to achieve our proposed target. I ask Parliament to support the SSI.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Again, the question on the motion will be put at decision time. The next item of business is consideration of three Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Geor...