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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 15 November 2023

15 Nov 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament

Item of business

Scottish Ministerial Code (First Minister and Deputy First Minister)

Ross, Douglas Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I absolutely agree with Daniel Johnson, and I will say this, repeatedly: it is not up to the Scottish Government and SNP ministers to say what is relevant or not for the Covid inquiry. We need to get full answers and full transparency, so they have to hand over absolutely everything.

Let us be clear: the most senior SNP members are still dodging scrutiny by refusing to launch an independent investigation, as per their amendment today. On 26 October, the First Minister promised me in the chamber that the Government would “fully investigate” why those messages had not been transferred, and that the Solicitor General had been tasked to lead that investigation. However, that is the last that Parliament has heard of it.

In the interests of transparency and openness, will the Deputy First Minister update us today on the status of that investigation and on the one launched by the permanent secretary? If not, I expect that many will assume that that is because it would again reinforce that the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister have not told the truth; that the request for meetings dates from February rather than from September, as they claim; and that, as a result, both Humza Yousaf and Shona Robison have deliberately misled this Parliament.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD

The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-011247, in the name of Douglas Ross, on an independent investigation into the First Minister and Deputy F...

Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con

Truth is at the heart of the debate that we are having today, as are the efforts to get crucial answers for bereaved families who are looking to the Covid in...

Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab

Does Douglas Ross agree that one of the Nolan principles is accountability, according to which public office holders should “submit themselves to the scruti...

Douglas Ross Con

I absolutely agree with the member, who chairs the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee in Parliament. Let us not forget that previous SNP...

Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab

Would Douglas Ross agree that, because what is at stake here is the context of key decisions that were made in Government at a time of crisis, the failure to...

The Deputy Presiding Officer LD

Douglas Ross, I can give you the time back.

Douglas Ross Con

I absolutely agree with Daniel Johnson, and I will say this, repeatedly: it is not up to the Scottish Government and SNP ministers to say what is relevant or...

The Deputy Presiding Officer LD

Mr Ross, I think that you are well aware of standing orders in relation to accusations that members have deliberately misled this Parliament. I give a warnin...

Douglas Ross Con

I am grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I will be careful. However, I believe that this was deliberate, because those statements were not a simple slip...

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance (Shona Robison) SNP

I hope to set out today why I reject not only the motion but its premise. I start by repeating the First Minister’s acknowledgement last week that, in hindsi...

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD

I keep hearing the Government use the excuse that it interpreted the requirements of the UK Covid inquiry too narrowly. I do not understand that. Many of us ...

Shona Robison SNP

Let me go into some of the detail on that in response to Alex Cole-Hamilton. In my statement of 31 October, and in answers to questions, I acknowledged that ...

Daniel Johnson Lab

I struggle to understand why the Government misinterpreted the request and interpreted it so narrowly. The point of an inquiry is surely to understand why de...

Shona Robison SNP

The focus was on decision making and providing the record of decision making. The subsequent request from the inquiry was for the broader range of context th...

Douglas Ross Con

Can Shona Robison confirm when she, as a current member of the Government and a member of the previous Government, was made aware of the request in February ...

Shona Robison SNP

When I was making the preparations for the statement, the advice to me was very clear that the Scottish Government’s interpretation of those early requests w...

Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con

Will the member give way?

Shona Robison SNP

Meghan Gallacher Con

How can the Government be fully transparent if WhatsApp messages were manually deleted by key players during the Covid-19 inquiry?

The Deputy Presiding Officer LD

I can give you the time back, Deputy First Minister.

Shona Robison SNP

I dealt in my statement, at length, with the record management policy of the Government, which is that decision making, whether on WhatsApp or anything else,...

Martin Whitfield Lab

Will the member give way on that point?

Shona Robison SNP

I do not have time. I am sorry; I need to make progress. Further to my previous statement, and in line with a request from the UK inquiry, I provided the Pa...

Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con

Will the member take an intervention on that point?

Shona Robison SNP

I do not have time. In relation to messages that have been collated by the Scottish Government, we sought and received from the UK inquiry a section 21 noti...

The Deputy Presiding Officer LD

I can give you a bit more time, Deputy First Minister.

Shona Robison SNP

Thank you. I want to highlight the information that I provided in my 31 October statement to the chamber regarding the handling and retention of records, in...

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab

Will the Deputy First Minister take a brief intervention on that point?

The Deputy Presiding Officer LD

The Deputy First Minister is just concluding.

Shona Robison SNP

I am sure that the Minister for Parliamentary Business will be able to address Ms Baillie’s point in his closing speech. I underline our commitment to do al...