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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 15 November 2023

15 Nov 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Ministerial Code (First Minister and Deputy First Minister)
Ross, Douglas Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

Truth is at the heart of the debate that we are having today, as are the efforts to get crucial answers for bereaved families who are looking to the Covid inquiries for informed responses, having considered all the information.

All of us here have a collective responsibility to stand up for the integrity of our Parliament. If the value of what is said in this chamber is put into question or—worse—found to be untrue, that diminishes our exchanges and makes our national debate poorer. What is said here does—and must—matter. Although we will and should always debate their content, the validity of our speeches and statements should be beyond question. We owe it to our constituents, who expect their representatives to conduct themselves with honesty. If the public cannot trust parliamentarians, that reflects badly not only on one individual party, but on us all.

That is why the question before us should be above the usual partisan considerations. This is not a battle of ideas or a debate on how we best govern our country; it is a simple consideration of the facts and the evidence—of what was said, and whether there was a deliberate attempt to mislead.

The ministerial code that was signed off by Humza Yousaf is clear. It states:

“It is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and truthful information to the Parliament”.

On penalties, it says:

“Ministers who knowingly mislead the Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation”.

What should happen next if the ministerial code has been breached is not in question—it is already there in print. The motion that the Scottish Conservatives have lodged does not even make a final judgment on whether the chamber was misled by the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister, although I will certainly put forward the case for that later in my speech. All it calls for is an independent investigation into whether there has been a rule breach and why.

There should not be a single member in the chamber who cannot support the motion. I confirm that we will accept the Labour amendment, but of course we will have to reject the amendment proposed by the Scottish National Party. I think that people watching this meeting will find it incredible that the party of Government will not even allow an independent assessment of what the First Minister and Deputy First Minister told the Parliament. If the Government believes that there has been no breach of the code, why would it not allow an investigation to go ahead to confirm its side of events? I suspect that that is because it already knows what the findings would be, and they would not be favourable to Humza Yousaf or Shona Robison.

If the Government is unwilling to allow that investigation, I will set out the facts and allow members and the public to draw their own conclusions.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-011247, in the name of Douglas Ross, on an independent investigation into the First Minister and Deputy F...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Truth is at the heart of the debate that we are having today, as are the efforts to get crucial answers for bereaved families who are looking to the Covid in...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Does Douglas Ross agree that one of the Nolan principles is accountability, according to which public office holders should “submit themselves to the scruti...
Douglas Ross Con
I absolutely agree with the member, who chairs the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee in Parliament. Let us not forget that previous SNP...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Would Douglas Ross agree that, because what is at stake here is the context of key decisions that were made in Government at a time of crisis, the failure to...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Douglas Ross, I can give you the time back.
Douglas Ross Con
I absolutely agree with Daniel Johnson, and I will say this, repeatedly: it is not up to the Scottish Government and SNP ministers to say what is relevant or...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Mr Ross, I think that you are well aware of standing orders in relation to accusations that members have deliberately misled this Parliament. I give a warnin...
Douglas Ross Con
I am grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I will be careful. However, I believe that this was deliberate, because those statements were not a simple slip...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance (Shona Robison) SNP
I hope to set out today why I reject not only the motion but its premise. I start by repeating the First Minister’s acknowledgement last week that, in hindsi...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I keep hearing the Government use the excuse that it interpreted the requirements of the UK Covid inquiry too narrowly. I do not understand that. Many of us ...
Shona Robison SNP
Let me go into some of the detail on that in response to Alex Cole-Hamilton. In my statement of 31 October, and in answers to questions, I acknowledged that ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I struggle to understand why the Government misinterpreted the request and interpreted it so narrowly. The point of an inquiry is surely to understand why de...
Shona Robison SNP
The focus was on decision making and providing the record of decision making. The subsequent request from the inquiry was for the broader range of context th...
Douglas Ross Con
Can Shona Robison confirm when she, as a current member of the Government and a member of the previous Government, was made aware of the request in February ...
Shona Robison SNP
When I was making the preparations for the statement, the advice to me was very clear that the Scottish Government’s interpretation of those early requests w...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Shona Robison SNP
Briefly.
Meghan Gallacher Con
How can the Government be fully transparent if WhatsApp messages were manually deleted by key players during the Covid-19 inquiry?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, Deputy First Minister.
Shona Robison SNP
I dealt in my statement, at length, with the record management policy of the Government, which is that decision making, whether on WhatsApp or anything else,...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Will the member give way on that point?
Shona Robison SNP
I do not have time. I am sorry; I need to make progress. Further to my previous statement, and in line with a request from the UK inquiry, I provided the Pa...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Shona Robison SNP
I do not have time. In relation to messages that have been collated by the Scottish Government, we sought and received from the UK inquiry a section 21 noti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you a bit more time, Deputy First Minister.
Shona Robison SNP
Thank you. I want to highlight the information that I provided in my 31 October statement to the chamber regarding the handling and retention of records, in...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Will the Deputy First Minister take a brief intervention on that point?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The Deputy First Minister is just concluding.
Shona Robison SNP
I am sure that the Minister for Parliamentary Business will be able to address Ms Baillie’s point in his closing speech. I underline our commitment to do al...