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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 November 2023

14 Nov 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Migration to Scotland: Scottish Government Proposals
Hepburn, Jamie SNP Cumbernauld and Kilsyth Watch on SPTV

We will always consider what we can do within the powers that we have, but it would be far better if we had those powers in our hands in the first place, so that we did not have to see those large fees put in place.

I have laid out some of the important and vital policies that we propose, but our paper does more than describe the mechanics of a migration system; it also demonstrates that migration is fundamentally about valuing people—those who already live here and those who wish to make Scotland their home.

The words that we use to describe people who wish to come to Scotland are important. We see Scotland’s future migrants—individuals and families—as having something positive to offer to society, our businesses and our communities. We want to welcome people who can contribute in that way, and we are proud to set out detailed proposals and extend a warm welcome to Scotland.

Part of that welcoming approach is about removing unnecessary barriers to migration, which is why our paper makes it clear that Scottish visa fees—this relates to Paul Sweeney’s point—would be set at a fair level. It ensures full-cost recovery but does not seek to generate excessive revenue. That would reduce costs for individual migrants and for employers seeking to bring those migrants’ talent to Scotland to support their businesses.

The warm Scottish welcome that we want to see will extend to asylum seekers and refugees. As we face the increasing global impacts of international conflicts and climate disruption, we will not ignore our wider responsibilities. Today, Scotland provides a welcome home to many asylum seekers and refugees. Each of us will see that in the communities that we represent in here.

The proposals in our paper demonstrate our commitment to continue to offer sanctuary to people in need. We set out an approach that is firmly rooted in respect for international law, human rights and social justice. It sets out humane, compassionate policies that are rooted in support for integration, in line with our existing policy set out in “New Scots: refugee integration strategy”.

A hallmark of the cruel nature of the UK asylum system is that those who are seeking asylum are simultaneously denied recourse to public funds and not allowed to find employment. A crucial means of supporting integration and ensuring people’s dignity is to make sure that asylum seekers have the right to work and that they have access to employability support and public assistance. That is vital to reducing the likelihood of destitution.

That approach stands in stark contrast to the current inhumane asylum policies that restrict people’s rights and limit support while they wait, often for far too long, for a decision from the Home Office. Tomorrow, we will learn the Supreme Court’s judgment in relation to the UK Government’s plans to relocate people to Rwanda to have any asylum application considered there. The UK should be upholding the United Nations Refugee Convention and supporting people who are in need of protection, not undermining international protections.

The UK Government’s memorandum of understanding with Rwanda is an abdication of the UK’s moral and international responsibilities to recognise and support refugees. I find it impossible to believe that any Government in an independent Scotland would pursue such a shameful policy. We would not seek to outsource any part of our asylum system to another country. We cannot prejudge the Supreme Court’s ruling, but we can say that, now that Suella Braverman has gone, that policy should go, too.

An independent Scotland would have the opportunity to create a new approach to migration and asylum. That would allow us to ensure the efficient and timely processing of asylum protections in order to end the appalling backlogs that we see in the current system. It would include no Dungavel and no detention by default.

We want all communities to be able to thrive, and we want our economy to prosper. People choosing to come to live, work or study in Scotland will be key to our future success. That is why we need Scottish migration policy to be decided here, in this Parliament, and that is why Scotland needs independence.

I move,

That the Parliament notes that Scotland’s population growth has relied on migration into Scotland; welcomes the fact that there are currently more people choosing to move to Scotland from the rest of the UK than those moving in the opposite direction; recognises the benefits of EU freedom of movement, which was lost as a result of Brexit; agrees that a decline in the working population would damage Scotland’s public services and economy; deplores the UK Government’s hostile rhetoric towards migrants, and welcomes the proposals in the Scottish Government paper, “Migration to Scotland after independence”, for a humane migration system tailored to Scotland’s needs.

15:02  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11237, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on building a new Scotland—migration to Scotland after independence....
The Minister for Independence (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
Migration has had a hugely positive impact on Scotland throughout our history. We have been enriched by the contribution of those who have chosen to make Sco...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Does the minister recognise that initiatives such as the ScotGrad scheme have been particularly effective not just in placing postgraduate students from an i...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I recognise that having specific schemes that are predicated on specific outcomes can make a difference, and I will come on to that in a few moments. Althou...
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP) SNP
On the population strategy and the focus of that work, does the minister acknowledge that there is a broad cross-section of opinion in Scotland that supports...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for that intervention, minister.
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Yes, I recognise the point that Mr Swinney makes. Specific sectors and organisations make that point frequently. I know that Mr Swinney will encounter that i...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
A fine paper.
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I can see that Mr Fraser is excited by that prospect. He will know that, in that paper, the Conservatives describe the migration shifts to our urban centres ...
Paul Sweeney Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Do I have time, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, minister.
Paul Sweeney Lab
I thank the minister for giving way. He has been very generous with his time. The minister mentioned the need to recruit health and social care workers, whi...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
We will always consider what we can do within the powers that we have, but it would be far better if we had those powers in our hands in the first place, so ...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I had a familiar sense of déjà vu while reading the Scottish Government’s motion ahead of today’s debate. Aside from the usual criticism of the UK Government...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
The member suggests that this area is not a priority for the people of Scotland. Would he recognise that many of our public services, such as social care, an...
Donald Cameron Con
Net migration has doubled—I will come on to that—but the real issue for the minister is why his Government has failed to improve those public services, given...
John Swinney SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron Con
I will continue. That £80,000 is on top of the £1.5 million that the Scottish Government allocates to civil servants who are working on its independence pro...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Donald Cameron Con
Not at the moment. Although the sentiment might be welcome, the fact remains that Scotland’s rural population has been in free fall for some time and the Go...
The Minister for Equalities, Migration and Refugees (Emma Roddick) SNP
I agree with the member that we could take more migrants; that is exactly what the Scottish Government is offering to do here and through responses to humani...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Donald Cameron, I can give you the time back for the intervention.
Donald Cameron Con
I say to the minister that, instead of debating a paper on a hypothetical migration policy in the event of independence, what the Parliament should be debati...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron Con
No. I have already taken several. The reasons for that are many. It might be because Scotland is the highest-taxed part of the UK, with anyone who earns mor...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Today, we have the opportunity to discuss issues of migration, including migration to, and internally within, Scotland. I welcome the chance to discuss how w...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
In the spirit of looking for solutions to the issues that Paul O’Kane has rightly outlined, I note that Labour is keen to get the keys to number 10, so how w...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I am grateful to Ms Forbes for her positive engagement and for sounding positive about the prospect of a Labour Government. I am about to come on to talk abo...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Will the member give way?