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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 November 2023

09 Nov 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Fair Work in a Wellbeing Economy
Fraser, Murdo Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

It has been a rather bizarre debate so far. [Interruption.] We have had one long speech from the cabinet secretary and various interventions. Despite the fact that the debate is entitled “Fair Work in a Wellbeing Economy”, the cabinet secretary’s motion makes no mention at all of the wellbeing economy. The motion is entirely focused on the constitutional question of the devolution of employment powers to the Scottish Parliament.

The cabinet secretary seemed remarkably coy about that subject. He was nine minutes into a 12-minute speech before he even mentioned—in response to my intervention—the question of the devolution of employment law. Maybe he is a bit embarrassed about bringing the issue to the chamber.

The question that many people outside the chamber will be asking themselves, having heard everything that the cabinet secretary had to say, is, “What happened to the new deal for business that we’ve heard so much about?” There was nothing in the cabinet secretary’s speech that gave any comfort to people in the business community who are looking for a new approach from the Scottish Government.

The rhetoric that we have heard from the Government over the past few weeks has been encouraging. The cabinet secretary and his colleagues have said that the Government wants to reset its relationship with the business community, and we have heard that the Government now believes in economic growth. Such a belief was absent for many years; its return is a very welcome development. When the First Minister delivered his programme for government a few months back, he said:

“When businesses succeed, Scotland succeeds. It is on the back of the success of businesses, large and small, that we will deliver a wellbeing economy where good, well-paying, sustainable jobs are created and innovation flourishes”.

That is a tremendous sentiment. What a pity it is that we did not hear much of that in the cabinet secretary’s speech.

I hoped that, in a debate on the wellbeing economy, we would hear more from the Government about how it would take forward its new deal for business and about how it was listening to what business was telling it. I am sure that business is telling the Government what it is telling us. Businesses have said that taxation, excessive regulation and the need to properly consult before bringing in new laws are the issues that need to be addressed. What did we get instead from the cabinet secretary? We got the same tired old message on the constitution.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11161, in the name of Neil Gray, on fair work in a wellbeing economy. 14:58
The Cabinet Secretary for Wellbeing Economy, Fair Work and Energy (Neil Gray) SNP
Our vision is for a wellbeing economy that supports fair and green economic growth and that benefits people and communities across Scotland, providing opport...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Neil Gray SNP
I will do shortly. In 2023, the gender pay gap for all employees in Scotland was 8.7 per cent, which is lower than the comparable figure for the UK—14.3 per...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The Fair Work Convention’s report also highlighted a number of areas in which the Scottish Government could go further. Which of those is the most important ...
Neil Gray SNP
As I said, I welcome the Fair Work Convention’s report. It provides a very helpful measure of where we are and the progress that we are making, but it is als...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister give way?
Neil Gray SNP
Bear with me a second. The report indicates that, in addition to Scotland having the highest levels of pay in the UK, it has the lowest levels of low-paid i...
Brian Whittle Con
What will the Scottish Government do to tackle the high levels of economically inactive people in Scotland, especially those with ill health?
Neil Gray SNP
Levels of economic inactivity are too high in Scotland, as they are across the whole of the UK, so we need to look at what can be done to address that. This ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will Neil Gray give way?
Neil Gray SNP
I will, for the final time.
Murdo Fraser Con
We are six minutes into the cabinet secretary’s speech and he has not yet mentioned the wording of his motion, in which there is a specific call for the devo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I will give you the time back for the intervention.
Neil Gray SNP
Thank you—I appreciate that. I note that Murdo Fraser’s amendment to the motion contains little more than a passing mention of fair work, which shows the Co...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We have a little bit of time in hand, so members can have the time back for any interventions that they take. 15:11
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It has been a rather bizarre debate so far. Interruption. We have had one long speech from the cabinet secretary and various interventions. Despite the fact ...
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
Yes, I will give way to Mr McKee—a member of the Government in exile.
Ivan McKee SNP
Does Murdo Fraser not recognise that international data clearly shows that countries and economies that prioritise fair work and that have high standards of ...
Murdo Fraser Con
I know that Mr McKee has a record in business, so he should be listening to what business voices are saying about what the Scottish Government should be focu...
The Minister for Independence (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
Does Mr Fraser expect us to take seriously the notion of a Conservative member of the Scottish Parliament talking about the need for economic growth when his...
Murdo Fraser Con
That is nonsense. I do not know whether the minister has looked at what has happened to economies elsewhere in the world. The UK is performing better than ma...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Would Murdo Fraser accept that there is quite a lot of variety in the business community and that, although some businesses need more support, others are mak...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, Mr Fraser.
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Mason needs to engage with major figures in the business community, particularly in sectors such as finance, which has a very fluid and flexible workforce...
Neil Gray SNP
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
No, I have given away about four or five times and really need to make some progress.
Neil Gray SNP
Three times.
Murdo Fraser Con
Rather than learn from that experience, this Government wants to go further and to create a different employment law regime here in Scotland. That will not a...