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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 November 2023

01 Nov 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Flooding (Support for Communities)

Understanding is important, and I will come to that later, because with understanding comes confidence that we will be safe. We need to have the understanding in order to plan for the future so that we can adapt much more significantly than we ever thought was possible. I have never really witnessed such extreme weather events. Of course, there have been individual events, but the frequency and the extreme nature of recent ones are much more significant, and we therefore need to revise plans for the future.

Another lesson from the past few weeks has been the ability of the emergency services to respond. There is no doubt that they deserve huge credit for what they did in Angus and Aberdeenshire, Tayside and Perthshire. In extreme circumstances, they came together and made a significant impact. However, the capacity of local authorities to respond to extreme weather events is limited. I have witnessed many communities who cannot get through to call centres, partly because of the volume of calls but also due to the limited capacity of teams at the other end to respond to them. Fire services are also much more limited. That is why we will support Labour’s amendment at decision time.

John Swinney is right about community resilience. If we have community resilience teams in areas that are able to have the expertise and knowledge to be able to respond and work in partnership, they could act much more quickly than any emergency service. If they have the knowledge and understanding, they can also assist. I have to call out Fraser Kotlewski from Auchtermuchty, who has done a tremendous job over the past few weeks in supporting his neighbours. We need more people like Fraser across the country in order to be able to make a real difference.

I will come back to common understanding. I am a strong supporter of farmers, who are great custodians of the land and are the experts in it. They know how their land works, how it has changed, where water flows and where it does not and how they deal with all of that.

We have some brilliant advice, examples of best practice, research and guidance from various institutes. We have funding in place for special schemes, such as at Eddleston in the Borders and the West Sands in my constituency. We have agricultural support in relation to swales and reservoirs. However, we need to go a step further, because I am not sure that neighbours next to farmland really understand whether the land that is neighbouring their property has been properly managed and is adapting to the change that is coming, which John Swinney has rightly highlighted.

Over the weekend, I received reports about dredging in the River Eden. It has not been dredged significantly for some time, and the current view is that dredging is not in vogue and that we should have a much more naturally flowing river. However, there is anxiety in the community that the lack of dredging is holding the water back in the tributaries and is having an effect on the ability of the water to flow freely. There is a lot of expert advice on that, but the communities clearly do not understand it and do not understand how it applies in their communities. Therefore, an extra job needs to be done in order to get a common understanding.

I am leading some work in Strathmiglo, the village that I grew up in, along those very lines. I am getting the farmers together with the council and various authorities to get a common understanding about dredging and also about rewilding in that community, as well as about issues such as how potatoes are sown in the field. If they are planted up and down the field rather than across, what difference does that make? Apparently, the machinery only allows the planting to go up and down the field. However, people with properties neighbouring the field get concerned that the dreels go up and down, because they think that the water is going to go right into their houses—and, in some cases, it has. How do we deal with that? Do we continue to grow potatoes next to certain properties? All that needs to be properly explored, and I am not sure that that is happening.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11036, in the name of Maurice Golden, on supporting communities to mitigate flooding impacts and increase...
Maurice Golden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Storm Babet has left a terrible trail of destruction in its wake, and the north-east of Scotland, Perthshire and Tayside have been hit especially hard. There...
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP) SNP
I am appreciating the contents of Mr Golden’s speech. As part of what he is advocating, does he see there being a role for community resilience groups to be ...
Maurice Golden Con
I whole-heartedly agree with John Swinney, because it is the people on the ground, rather than the council or another agency, who know which properties are m...
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Net Zero and Just Transition (Màiri McAllan) SNP
I am very grateful to have the opportunity to respond for the Government on this most important issue. Storm Babet was an exceptional weather event for Scot...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Last week, I asked when the Scottish Government would, in the light of storm Babet, carry out a review of existing and planned flood prevention infrastructur...
Màiri McAllan SNP
Sarah Boyack is absolutely right to raise the issue. The process is on-going on a number of fronts, most of all in respect of SEPA’s flood forecasting, which...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Màiri McAllan SNP
I will give way to Mr Swinney.
John Swinney SNP
I would like to follow up on the point that Sarah Boyack raised. I make a plea that in the work that SEPA is undertaking to examine future forecasting levels...
Màiri McAllan SNP
I am very happy to give John Swinney a concrete assurance that the storm will not be regarded as an isolated incident. It is never wise to attribute one weat...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Màiri McAllan SNP
I am going to make progress, because I am a bit concerned about time, but I will be glad to hear members’ points during the debate. I will use the time that...
Stephen Kerr Con
Will the minister give way?
Màiri McAllan SNP
I am afraid not; I am keen to make progress. We know that local recovery plans are being drawn up and delivered through vital partnership working. The Scott...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Cabinet secretary, you must conclude.
Màiri McAllan SNP
I have noted that my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands is engaging with the impact on food producers and has already...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Before I call the next member, I would be grateful if all members who wish to speak in the debate were to press their request-to-speak buttons. I call Sarah...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Last week’s statement on storm Babet gave us all the chance to send our condolences to the families who had lost a loved one and to thank those in our public...
Brian Whittle Con
We know that prolonged water scarcity—particularly before big storms—can have a significant impact on flood conditions, with impacts such as soil compaction....
Sarah Boyack Lab
There has to be a joined-up approach to tackle extreme weather conditions, because what the member described is experienced in other countries as well. He is...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
On Saturday afternoon, I met residents in Auchtermuchty who had been subjected to significant floods. Their houses were dirty and damp, and the smell still p...
John Swinney SNP
Before Mr Rennie reflects on the lessons of this particular weather incident, would he agree with me that part of what we have to understand is the enormous ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
I will give Mr Rennie the time back.
Willie Rennie LD
Understanding is important, and I will come to that later, because with understanding comes confidence that we will be safe. We need to have the understandin...
John Swinney SNP
Mr Rennie is making an important point, but will he extend it to the issue of forestry harvesting? Significant removal of trees, which is commonplace in many...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Mr Rennie, you need to wind up.
Willie Rennie LD
I have so much more to say. I absolutely agree with Mr Swinney. Riparian trees are also important, as they hold the river banks together. It is incredibly i...