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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 October 2023

25 Oct 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Skills

It is a pleasure to close the debate for Labour today. We brought today’s debate before Parliament because the stakes to get skills right have never been higher, and my colleagues Daniel Johnson, Martin Whitfield and Colin Smyth highlighted just how high—there are yawning skills gaps and shortages of apprentices; families are struggling to make ends meet; the economy is declining; and public services are starved of cash.

Although I recognise that both ministers offered to engage widely on reform, I am yet to be convinced that the pace of change is sufficient or that there is the necessary breadth of the vision to create and spread opportunity for all.

Spreading that opportunity starts with education. When education is valued and nourished, it creates and spreads opportunity all through life: in school, when we learn about the world around us; in college and university, where we learn to live and work in it; and in the workplace or our community, where we learn to apply it. The opportunities that education can bring are endless, and the skills that it builds are crucial.

I welcome the minister’s comments and those of others, including Brian Whittle, that the entire education system matters in relation to skills, but I remain disappointed that, at least until now, the area seems undervalued and deprioritised by this Government. Cuts are swathing, and inequality is holding back progress. Nowhere is that seen more obviously, as we have heard, than in science, technology, engineering and maths—skills that are widely recognised as the accelerating forces for future economic growth and to meet the challenges of tomorrow. It is also, consequently, where the well-paid jobs of the future lie.

To create a Scotland where opportunity is for all, we have to smash every glass and class ceiling that is in the way of pursuing those skills for the future. Economics, the law—and, yes, Jimmy Reid, as we have heard—all tell us why opportunity must do that. Yet, as Bob Doris, Maggie Chapman, Pam Gosal and other colleagues have noted, women and girls are underrepresented in those subjects and sectors and are routinely denied opportunities to build skills in them.

There are many reasons for that, but they start in the early years of children’s lives, when they get their first real exposure to the building blocks of skills that they will need, take an interest in and then excel at. As the Institute of Engineering and Technology reports, not focusing on STEM from an early age limits choices later in life, too, including for girls, and the data shows it. We know that girls are far more likely to study highers in art and design, French, fashion, food tech and childcare, and boys are more likely to study computing science, physics, engineering and graphic communication. We know that gender stereotypes continue into the workplace, as colleagues have said. Sixty per cent of people who work in care are women, yet women represent only 30 per cent of the STEM workforce. Of that number, 70 per cent leave, and only 12 per cent of the remaining women reach managerial levels. We have to use every opportunity to expose all young people to the broadest of skills, including in STEM, if we are to address skill shortages in key sectors and ensure that we take everyone with us.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-10922, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for the future. I ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The skills debate has never been more prominent nor more important. That is not just because of recent publications and reports in Scotland. When we look glo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call the minister to speak to and move amendment S6M-10922.2. 15:39
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
I genuinely welcome Labour bringing this debate, although it is brief, to the chamber because it gives me an opportunity to outline the work that has been un...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Graeme Dey SNP
I am sorry, but I do not have time. I apologise—I have five minutes. Withers found that there is confusion and duplication in our public body landscape but,...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I welcome this debate on the future of the Scottish skills agenda, although it is a pity that it is taking place in Opposition time and that it is so short. ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
We will support the Labour motion, but I give credit to the minister following the Withers review. He has engaged in a positive fashion, and the omens are go...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:53
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
If we want an illustration of the lack of leadership and urgency from the Government in facing up to and tackling the skills shortages that we face today, an...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
The roll-out of the Scottish Government’s 10-year just transition fund is in its first years, and the substantial structural change that Labour’s motion call...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to contribute to this debate on the importance of Scotland’s skills landscape to its future economy. I will support the amendment in the name ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to follow Pam Gosal in this debate, because she highlighted an issue that is so important—the fact that there are unconventional routes thro...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Labour for securing the debate for the chamber. The motion calls for “structural change”, and that has been committed to, I believe. However, I alwa...
Graeme Dey SNP
I reassure John Mason that the points that he is making are perfectly valid and are informing a lot of our thinking around the national career service, in or...
John Mason SNP
That is great, and I am reassured by that. James Withers goes on to say: “different pathways are simply different: not better, not worse, just different.” ...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate. I thank the Labour Party for bringing such an important issue to the chamber. In my view, it is an ...
Graeme Dey SNP
Brian Whittle makes points about delivery on emissions targets. Why is it that the Conservatives oppose every measure that comes forward in the Parliament to...
Brian Whittle Con
If the minister had been listening, he would have heard that I said that that was a great idea. As I said, who will fit and service those heat pumps, let alo...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Our economy is changing—indeed, it has to change. Living in the midst of a climate emergency, as we are, it has perhaps never been clearer that business as u...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
This afternoon’s debate has been fascinating. There has been a fair degree of consensus—well, in parts. In the first instance, we all accept that there is a ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo Murdo Fraser’s opening lament by noting that, in closing a debate as important as one that is about ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for ...
The Minister for Small Business, Innovation, Tourism and Trade (Richard Lochhead) SNP
I think that one thing on which we can all agree is that this is a very important debate. I welcome the fact that the Labour Party has brought it to the cham...
Brian Whittle Lab
I am grateful to the minister for giving up some of his time. Would he agree that it is important that, in a marketing sense, we ensure that pupils at school...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Yes—of course that is important. We have to talk about what is happening in our schools as well as in the further and higher education system and in the wide...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
No—the minister is just about to conclude.
Richard Lochhead SNP
Colleges are training people to install air-source heat pumps and other equipment. A lot is happening. I hope that we can work together to build consensus an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to wind up the debate. 16:35
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to close the debate for Labour today. We brought today’s debate before Parliament because the stakes to get skills right have never been hig...