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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 October 2023

25 Oct 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Skills
Doris, Bob SNP Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn Watch on SPTV

This afternoon’s debate has been fascinating. There has been a fair degree of consensus—well, in parts. In the first instance, we all accept that there is a clear case for change regarding how we further develop and improve our skills landscape.

It is of course right that, as we navigate any change, we take the time to fully engage with industry, trade unions and educational institutions. Some members in the Parliament who would wish to see the Scottish Government act more swiftly to consider and implement recommendations would also be among the first to complain—and rightly so—if there was not full engagement with industry, unions and the education sector. Let us do so timeously but meaningfully, and let us get any required changes right.

Covid has been devastating. However, the Skills Development Scotland website shows that there have been 25,447 modern apprenticeship starts from April 2022 to March 2023, and that modern apprenticeship starts are now 91 per cent returned to pre-pandemic levels. That is positive and, as SDS said, it shows

“employer demand for critical skills.”

The challenge is to ensure that we deliver the right skills and training at the right time to support our businesses and our workforce; that is what the review is all about. The skills review is crucial. However, Skills Development Scotland also confirmed that figures show that the number of apprentices in training currently across the country—despite some of the doom and gloom that we have heard today—is at its highest-ever level, at around 39,000.

It is important that we ensure that the needs of our school leavers and the workforce more generally are met when we implement changes to the skills landscape. We have solid foundations to build on, with 93 per cent of school leavers sustaining positive destinations. Many are in education, training and employment.

It is also encouraging to see the increase in the percentage share of individuals who start a modern apprenticeship who have a declared disability or care experience or who come from an ethnic minority community, although I note that members have raised concerns about gender segregation and the need for more women in those roles. The crucial role of apprenticeships as a pathway into highly skilled employment for those from our most deprived communities is clear, with the largest share of apprenticeship starts—24 per cent—coming from our 20 per cent most deprived areas.

The review talks about how the funds in the system are often fragmented and are not always used as effectively as they could be. I note that one example that was used was colleges, which often have to balance their sustainability between a mix of core funding via credits and bolt-on funding such as through national transition training funds and the young persons guarantee. I was therefore interested in recommendation 5, which would establish a new style of national funding body that would have responsibility for administering and overseeing the delivery of all publicly funded post-school learning and training. That is an interesting idea. It would leave a clear line of sight between ministerial priorities and policies and public funding. It also links to recommendation 6, which would redesign the process for implementing the funding of all learning and training provision. We must look at the position of colleges in that context. They are in a tight financial predicament and are making redundancies. They need investment and sustainability. If recommendations 5 and 6 are to mean anything, they must deliver for Scotland’s college sector.

16:26  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-10922, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for the future. I ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The skills debate has never been more prominent nor more important. That is not just because of recent publications and reports in Scotland. When we look glo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call the minister to speak to and move amendment S6M-10922.2. 15:39
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
I genuinely welcome Labour bringing this debate, although it is brief, to the chamber because it gives me an opportunity to outline the work that has been un...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Graeme Dey SNP
I am sorry, but I do not have time. I apologise—I have five minutes. Withers found that there is confusion and duplication in our public body landscape but,...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I welcome this debate on the future of the Scottish skills agenda, although it is a pity that it is taking place in Opposition time and that it is so short. ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
We will support the Labour motion, but I give credit to the minister following the Withers review. He has engaged in a positive fashion, and the omens are go...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:53
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
If we want an illustration of the lack of leadership and urgency from the Government in facing up to and tackling the skills shortages that we face today, an...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
The roll-out of the Scottish Government’s 10-year just transition fund is in its first years, and the substantial structural change that Labour’s motion call...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to contribute to this debate on the importance of Scotland’s skills landscape to its future economy. I will support the amendment in the name ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to follow Pam Gosal in this debate, because she highlighted an issue that is so important—the fact that there are unconventional routes thro...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Labour for securing the debate for the chamber. The motion calls for “structural change”, and that has been committed to, I believe. However, I alwa...
Graeme Dey SNP
I reassure John Mason that the points that he is making are perfectly valid and are informing a lot of our thinking around the national career service, in or...
John Mason SNP
That is great, and I am reassured by that. James Withers goes on to say: “different pathways are simply different: not better, not worse, just different.” ...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate. I thank the Labour Party for bringing such an important issue to the chamber. In my view, it is an ...
Graeme Dey SNP
Brian Whittle makes points about delivery on emissions targets. Why is it that the Conservatives oppose every measure that comes forward in the Parliament to...
Brian Whittle Con
If the minister had been listening, he would have heard that I said that that was a great idea. As I said, who will fit and service those heat pumps, let alo...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Our economy is changing—indeed, it has to change. Living in the midst of a climate emergency, as we are, it has perhaps never been clearer that business as u...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
This afternoon’s debate has been fascinating. There has been a fair degree of consensus—well, in parts. In the first instance, we all accept that there is a ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo Murdo Fraser’s opening lament by noting that, in closing a debate as important as one that is about ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for ...
The Minister for Small Business, Innovation, Tourism and Trade (Richard Lochhead) SNP
I think that one thing on which we can all agree is that this is a very important debate. I welcome the fact that the Labour Party has brought it to the cham...
Brian Whittle Lab
I am grateful to the minister for giving up some of his time. Would he agree that it is important that, in a marketing sense, we ensure that pupils at school...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Yes—of course that is important. We have to talk about what is happening in our schools as well as in the further and higher education system and in the wide...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
No—the minister is just about to conclude.
Richard Lochhead SNP
Colleges are training people to install air-source heat pumps and other equipment. A lot is happening. I hope that we can work together to build consensus an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to wind up the debate. 16:35
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to close the debate for Labour today. We brought today’s debate before Parliament because the stakes to get skills right have never been hig...