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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 October 2023

25 Oct 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Skills
Chapman, Maggie Green North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

Our economy is changing—indeed, it has to change. Living in the midst of a climate emergency, as we are, it has perhaps never been clearer that business as usual, whatever the sector or industry, is not an option. Underpinning that economic transformation must be a skilled and supported workforce that comes from and sustains resilient, co-operative and compassionate communities. Education and the skills development of our workforce and communities are vital to achieving our ambitions across all aspects of our lives.

I thank James Withers for the work that he undertook for the independent review of the skills delivery landscape in Scotland. That wide-ranging review and its recommendations are challenging and thought provoking. I appreciated the Economy and Fair Work Committee evidence session that we had with him recently, and I know that those conversations will continue.

As we have heard, the Withers report warrants a dedicated and detailed response in its own right, which is forthcoming. The structural and operational recommendations speak to important issues such as the need for more strategic working, policy coherence and empowerment of regional and local partners and workforces.

Of course, specific skills are needed to ensure that we deliver the just transition that we want. We need skills in energy but also in areas such as affordable net zero housing. As we have just heard, the construction workforce that is needed for retrofits is a nice example of the urgent need for targeted Government intervention. We must work with industry to ensure that we have the in-work learning opportunities that our workforces will need.

I have one further comment to make on policy coherence—perhaps on strategy coherence, too. We will not meet our legal climate targets, nor will we achieve the just transition or creation of the clean, green economy that we want, if the different components of work do not join up. Agencies and industry are calling for that, too, so I am hopeful that the green industrial strategy will provide coherence, alongside the updated climate emergency skills action plan and just transition plan. We need to identify skills-balancing opportunities and accelerate investment in skills, as we have already heard from other members. The fair work agenda, which was highlighted by Colin Smyth, must be central to that coherence.

I highlight another important area that we cannot overlook as we create the strategic landscape for our future economy: that of gender inequalities and occupational segregation. I am grateful to Close the Gap for the conversations that I have had with it about that. Occupational segregation is all too apparent in our labour market. Women are concentrated in low-paid, undervalued and increasingly precarious jobs. They are often low-carbon jobs, but they are overlooked when we talk about net zero skills and jobs.

The skills system in Scotland reinforces patterns of occupational segregation, as does the modern apprenticeships system. Women are vastly underrepresented in the energy sector and in green jobs more widely, and sectoral skills shortages are correlated with occupational segregation. Such labour market rigidity must not be sustained.

As we look to reform the skills landscape in Scotland, I hope that we will take seriously the opportunity to get rid of gendered patterns of skills acquisition and employment, so that we do not further entrench occupational segregation and gender inequalities across our workforces in different sectors.

I appeal to the minister and to all members in the chamber that we take seriously the calls not to be gender blind as we undertake reform of our skills landscape; that we take seriously the calls for genuine political leadership for that work to happen, and for it to happen at pace; and that we heed the calls for strategic and policy coherence within and across sectors. If we get that right, it will make so much easier our ambitions to create and sustain an economy that cares and provides for everyone.

16:22  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-10922, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for the future. I ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The skills debate has never been more prominent nor more important. That is not just because of recent publications and reports in Scotland. When we look glo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call the minister to speak to and move amendment S6M-10922.2. 15:39
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
I genuinely welcome Labour bringing this debate, although it is brief, to the chamber because it gives me an opportunity to outline the work that has been un...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Graeme Dey SNP
I am sorry, but I do not have time. I apologise—I have five minutes. Withers found that there is confusion and duplication in our public body landscape but,...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I welcome this debate on the future of the Scottish skills agenda, although it is a pity that it is taking place in Opposition time and that it is so short. ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
We will support the Labour motion, but I give credit to the minister following the Withers review. He has engaged in a positive fashion, and the omens are go...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:53
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
If we want an illustration of the lack of leadership and urgency from the Government in facing up to and tackling the skills shortages that we face today, an...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
The roll-out of the Scottish Government’s 10-year just transition fund is in its first years, and the substantial structural change that Labour’s motion call...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to contribute to this debate on the importance of Scotland’s skills landscape to its future economy. I will support the amendment in the name ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to follow Pam Gosal in this debate, because she highlighted an issue that is so important—the fact that there are unconventional routes thro...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Labour for securing the debate for the chamber. The motion calls for “structural change”, and that has been committed to, I believe. However, I alwa...
Graeme Dey SNP
I reassure John Mason that the points that he is making are perfectly valid and are informing a lot of our thinking around the national career service, in or...
John Mason SNP
That is great, and I am reassured by that. James Withers goes on to say: “different pathways are simply different: not better, not worse, just different.” ...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate. I thank the Labour Party for bringing such an important issue to the chamber. In my view, it is an ...
Graeme Dey SNP
Brian Whittle makes points about delivery on emissions targets. Why is it that the Conservatives oppose every measure that comes forward in the Parliament to...
Brian Whittle Con
If the minister had been listening, he would have heard that I said that that was a great idea. As I said, who will fit and service those heat pumps, let alo...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Our economy is changing—indeed, it has to change. Living in the midst of a climate emergency, as we are, it has perhaps never been clearer that business as u...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
This afternoon’s debate has been fascinating. There has been a fair degree of consensus—well, in parts. In the first instance, we all accept that there is a ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo Murdo Fraser’s opening lament by noting that, in closing a debate as important as one that is about ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for ...
The Minister for Small Business, Innovation, Tourism and Trade (Richard Lochhead) SNP
I think that one thing on which we can all agree is that this is a very important debate. I welcome the fact that the Labour Party has brought it to the cham...
Brian Whittle Lab
I am grateful to the minister for giving up some of his time. Would he agree that it is important that, in a marketing sense, we ensure that pupils at school...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Yes—of course that is important. We have to talk about what is happening in our schools as well as in the further and higher education system and in the wide...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
No—the minister is just about to conclude.
Richard Lochhead SNP
Colleges are training people to install air-source heat pumps and other equipment. A lot is happening. I hope that we can work together to build consensus an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to wind up the debate. 16:35
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to close the debate for Labour today. We brought today’s debate before Parliament because the stakes to get skills right have never been hig...