Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,096,833
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,096,833 contributions in session S6, 11 May 2026 – 10 Jun 2026. Latest 30 days: 2,655. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 09 Jun 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 October 2023

25 Oct 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Skills
Mason, John SNP Glasgow Shettleston Watch on SPTV

That is great, and I am reassured by that.

James Withers goes on to say:

“different pathways are simply different: not better, not worse, just different.”

We want to

“consign to the dustbin the outdated view that studying at university is somehow a ‘better’ kind of success.”

We should be proud of our university sector, but there are multiple potential pathways available. Learning happens in schools, colleges, universities, workplaces and elsewhere. We need more of a single integrated system—I agree.

It is unfortunate that Labour’s motion refers to skills shortages but does not mention Brexit. With the best will in the world, neither Scotland nor the UK will ever produce exactly the goods and services that we need. We always need to import and export. In the same way, however good our education and training system is, a flexible international labour market, as the EU provides, allows our people to take up opportunities in other countries and allows others to come and take up opportunities here.

The Government is taking time to consider the Withers review recommendations, and that is right. Withers makes 15 recommendations, some of which are more radical than others. Specifically, recommendation 5 proposes the establishment of a single national funding body, and I have certainly warmed to that proposal. Scotland is a relatively small country, and we should be able to run things in a simpler fashion compared with larger, more bureaucratic countries. My inherent feeling would be to support such a simplification. My only real concern would be to ensure that such a body would operate on the parity of esteem principle and would not favour universities over colleges and modern apprenticeships.

An important point that I make in passing is that we should recognise the skills of migrants.

On the Conservative amendment, I welcome its support for parity of esteem, but I also note its point about

“the shortage of public funding”.

That strikes me as slightly ironic, because the Conservative party is the party that wants lower taxes, which would inevitably mean a greater shortage of public funding—[Interruption.] I am sorry, but I do not have time to give way. As usual, the Conservatives do not suggest where the money should come from.

To finish on a positive note, 93 per cent of school leavers are going into positive destinations. Although we always want to improve those destinations, there are lots of positives in the present Scottish system, and we should not be afraid of celebrating those.

16:14  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-10922, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for the future. I ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The skills debate has never been more prominent nor more important. That is not just because of recent publications and reports in Scotland. When we look glo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call the minister to speak to and move amendment S6M-10922.2. 15:39
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
I genuinely welcome Labour bringing this debate, although it is brief, to the chamber because it gives me an opportunity to outline the work that has been un...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Graeme Dey SNP
I am sorry, but I do not have time. I apologise—I have five minutes. Withers found that there is confusion and duplication in our public body landscape but,...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I welcome this debate on the future of the Scottish skills agenda, although it is a pity that it is taking place in Opposition time and that it is so short. ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
We will support the Labour motion, but I give credit to the minister following the Withers review. He has engaged in a positive fashion, and the omens are go...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:53
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
If we want an illustration of the lack of leadership and urgency from the Government in facing up to and tackling the skills shortages that we face today, an...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
The roll-out of the Scottish Government’s 10-year just transition fund is in its first years, and the substantial structural change that Labour’s motion call...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to contribute to this debate on the importance of Scotland’s skills landscape to its future economy. I will support the amendment in the name ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to follow Pam Gosal in this debate, because she highlighted an issue that is so important—the fact that there are unconventional routes thro...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Labour for securing the debate for the chamber. The motion calls for “structural change”, and that has been committed to, I believe. However, I alwa...
Graeme Dey SNP
I reassure John Mason that the points that he is making are perfectly valid and are informing a lot of our thinking around the national career service, in or...
John Mason SNP
That is great, and I am reassured by that. James Withers goes on to say: “different pathways are simply different: not better, not worse, just different.” ...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate. I thank the Labour Party for bringing such an important issue to the chamber. In my view, it is an ...
Graeme Dey SNP
Brian Whittle makes points about delivery on emissions targets. Why is it that the Conservatives oppose every measure that comes forward in the Parliament to...
Brian Whittle Con
If the minister had been listening, he would have heard that I said that that was a great idea. As I said, who will fit and service those heat pumps, let alo...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Our economy is changing—indeed, it has to change. Living in the midst of a climate emergency, as we are, it has perhaps never been clearer that business as u...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
This afternoon’s debate has been fascinating. There has been a fair degree of consensus—well, in parts. In the first instance, we all accept that there is a ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo Murdo Fraser’s opening lament by noting that, in closing a debate as important as one that is about ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for ...
The Minister for Small Business, Innovation, Tourism and Trade (Richard Lochhead) SNP
I think that one thing on which we can all agree is that this is a very important debate. I welcome the fact that the Labour Party has brought it to the cham...
Brian Whittle Lab
I am grateful to the minister for giving up some of his time. Would he agree that it is important that, in a marketing sense, we ensure that pupils at school...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Yes—of course that is important. We have to talk about what is happening in our schools as well as in the further and higher education system and in the wide...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
No—the minister is just about to conclude.
Richard Lochhead SNP
Colleges are training people to install air-source heat pumps and other equipment. A lot is happening. I hope that we can work together to build consensus an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to wind up the debate. 16:35
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to close the debate for Labour today. We brought today’s debate before Parliament because the stakes to get skills right have never been hig...