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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 October 2023

25 Oct 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Skills
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

The skills debate has never been more prominent nor more important. That is not just because of recent publications and reports in Scotland. When we look globally, we see demographic change, which means that we need to do more with a smaller and ageing working population. Net zero and technology mean that the pace of change that is required in terms of people’s skills and qualifications during their working life has never been more rapid. Global economic change means that there is an emphasis on securonomics, on the resilience of individual economies and on a move away from the globalisation of recent decades, so we will need to be more self-sufficient in skills and across a number of economic areas. That is why the skills debate is so important.

I gently comment to the Government that the information in my motion comes from reports that it has commissioned and that the figures are ones that it has published. I would argue that there is consensus on the analysis not just between politicians and business but across the parties. Therefore, I wonder why the Government is seeking to amend my motion to obliterate all those observations and comments.

I believe that consensus is possible and that we need constructive discourse, albeit critical at times. We need to be frank in our reflections on our system in Scotland. If we look at the raw numbers, we see that the number of apprenticeship completions is down in 2022-23 compared with 2015-16, the number of graduate apprenticeships is largely flat and small relative to the number of people doing university degrees, and the number of employers and providers that are providing apprenticeships is down by a fifth.

We also see blockages in the system. Some 800 apprentices who started in 2017-18 have yet to complete their apprenticeships; we have year 5 and 6 apprenticeships, which should not be possible. That is down to blockages in assessment and in the ability of those apprentices to get recognition for the skills that they have acquired.

Key issues are also being raised by employers. According to the British Chambers of Commerce, some 70 per cent of respondents said that skills shortages are impacting their businesses and their profitability. There are problems with throughput in the system and serious challenges for businesses because of the system’s inability to provide the skills that they need.

The Office for National Statistics reports that barely more than a quarter of workers are also in in-work training. Flexibly provided training is not available for most people who are in work. The Withers review has been useful in that context. It provides analysis on which I think we can all agree—in part, if not in full—and some ways forward. However, I do not think that all its recommendations are of equal priority. It provides both functional recommendations and structural ones, and I think that some of the functional recommendations might be more important than the structural ones.

Our issue with the Government is not just that it has been largely silent in the six months since the Withers review was published but that it has been silent on some areas and overly specific on others. In its document “Purpose and Principles for Post-School Education, Research and Skills”, the Government essentially commits to a single funding structure and a consolidation of the qualifications and frameworks, yet it is silent on the functional issues.

The points that James Withers highlights on flexibility, a digital passport and putting the vocational and skills regime on a commensurate basis with the other qualifications are critically important. Embarking on costly and time-consuming structural reforms could get in the way of those measures.

I also note that the proposal in the Conservative amendment on putting the skills regime on a commensurate basis is of critical importance. We would vote for that amendment were there not pre-emption involved.

Even if those structural reforms were correct, I have concerns about the capacity of the organisations that would be required to assume additional responsibilities to adopt those functions.

The Scottish Funding Council has not done as much as it could do to progress graduate apprenticeships, and there are huge challenges in the tertiary education sector. The Scottish Qualifications Authority has a huge task ahead of it if it is going to on-board the recommendations of the Hayward review. I am not clear whether it has the ability and capacity to assume additional functions from the skills regime.

In the meantime, the overspecificity in those areas and the lack of clarity in others leave a huge cloud over the whole system. We have organisations in limbo, structures such as the Scottish apprenticeship advisory board essentially condemned and Skills Development Scotland looking as though it is going to be dismembered, but we have no real clarity as to what will happen.

A consensus is possible, and I look forward to future Government debates in which we talk about flexibility and additional pathways. I urge the Government to have those debates, because that is how we build consensus and a plan.

To conclude, I will alight on a quote from Jimmy Reid. In 1972, he said:

“To unleash the latent potential of our people requires that we give them responsibility. The untapped resources of the North Sea are as nothing compared to the untapped resources of our people. I am convinced that the great mass of our people go through life without even a glimmer of what they could have contributed to their fellow human beings. This is a personal tragedy. It’s a social crime.”

Jimmy Reid was right then, but I think that he is even more right now. The failure to provide a clear plan for our skills system will continue to let down people and ensure that they do not realise their potential.

I move,

That the Parliament notes the findings of the independent review of the skills delivery landscape, particularly that skills delivery has lacked clear leadership and direction, and substantial structural change is required to ensure that the skills system is fit for the future; regrets that Modern Apprenticeship starts are lower than in 2015-16 at a time when 70% of businesses are reporting skills shortages; is concerned that the proportion of people in employment who participated in job-related training is lower than it was in 2007; notes that net zero targets will require a step change in workforce skills but that the Scottish Government has only allocated 15% of its Just Transition Fund; considers that it is 21 months on from Audit Scotland’s conclusion that urgent action was needed on skills from the Scottish Government and that it is therefore disappointing that no reforms are yet planned; believes that Scotland urgently needs a vision for a flexible and responsive skills delivery system that is fit for the future, and calls, therefore, on the Scottish Government to set out its response to the review of the skills delivery landscape before the end of 2023 and to bring forward legislation on skills reform, as referenced in its Programme for Government, within the parliamentary year.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-10922, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for the future. I ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The skills debate has never been more prominent nor more important. That is not just because of recent publications and reports in Scotland. When we look glo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call the minister to speak to and move amendment S6M-10922.2. 15:39
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
I genuinely welcome Labour bringing this debate, although it is brief, to the chamber because it gives me an opportunity to outline the work that has been un...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Graeme Dey SNP
I am sorry, but I do not have time. I apologise—I have five minutes. Withers found that there is confusion and duplication in our public body landscape but,...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I welcome this debate on the future of the Scottish skills agenda, although it is a pity that it is taking place in Opposition time and that it is so short. ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
We will support the Labour motion, but I give credit to the minister following the Withers review. He has engaged in a positive fashion, and the omens are go...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:53
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
If we want an illustration of the lack of leadership and urgency from the Government in facing up to and tackling the skills shortages that we face today, an...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
The roll-out of the Scottish Government’s 10-year just transition fund is in its first years, and the substantial structural change that Labour’s motion call...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to contribute to this debate on the importance of Scotland’s skills landscape to its future economy. I will support the amendment in the name ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to follow Pam Gosal in this debate, because she highlighted an issue that is so important—the fact that there are unconventional routes thro...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Labour for securing the debate for the chamber. The motion calls for “structural change”, and that has been committed to, I believe. However, I alwa...
Graeme Dey SNP
I reassure John Mason that the points that he is making are perfectly valid and are informing a lot of our thinking around the national career service, in or...
John Mason SNP
That is great, and I am reassured by that. James Withers goes on to say: “different pathways are simply different: not better, not worse, just different.” ...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate. I thank the Labour Party for bringing such an important issue to the chamber. In my view, it is an ...
Graeme Dey SNP
Brian Whittle makes points about delivery on emissions targets. Why is it that the Conservatives oppose every measure that comes forward in the Parliament to...
Brian Whittle Con
If the minister had been listening, he would have heard that I said that that was a great idea. As I said, who will fit and service those heat pumps, let alo...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Our economy is changing—indeed, it has to change. Living in the midst of a climate emergency, as we are, it has perhaps never been clearer that business as u...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
This afternoon’s debate has been fascinating. There has been a fair degree of consensus—well, in parts. In the first instance, we all accept that there is a ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo Murdo Fraser’s opening lament by noting that, in closing a debate as important as one that is about ensuring that Scotland’s skills system is fit for ...
The Minister for Small Business, Innovation, Tourism and Trade (Richard Lochhead) SNP
I think that one thing on which we can all agree is that this is a very important debate. I welcome the fact that the Labour Party has brought it to the cham...
Brian Whittle Lab
I am grateful to the minister for giving up some of his time. Would he agree that it is important that, in a marketing sense, we ensure that pupils at school...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Yes—of course that is important. We have to talk about what is happening in our schools as well as in the further and higher education system and in the wide...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
No—the minister is just about to conclude.
Richard Lochhead SNP
Colleges are training people to install air-source heat pumps and other equipment. A lot is happening. I hope that we can work together to build consensus an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to wind up the debate. 16:35
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to close the debate for Labour today. We brought today’s debate before Parliament because the stakes to get skills right have never been hig...