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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 October 2023

24 Oct 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Transvaginal Mesh
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

When we have discussed transvaginal mesh in previous debates, I have started by paying tribute to fellow MSPs who have campaigned on the issue. However, I do not think that I can do that this afternoon, because it has been nine years since the petition first came before the Public Petitions Committee. That means nine years of debates in the Parliament, nine years of people expressing concern and bewilderment about the pain that women have had to endure, and nine years of failure to act. I do not think that I can pay tribute to that. In fact, all that I can do is apologise to those brave women who have campaigned so hard, because, frankly, as I stand here today, I wonder just how much progress we have really made.

Today, we have had an acknowledgement of what women have had to endure. We have outlined initiatives that might take place and funds that might be available if the women qualified and they applied in time, and we have heard that training and a register might be in place. However, the reality is that, as the most recent report said, not one of the 2017 report’s 46 recommendations has been implemented.

Notwithstanding the facts and whether those reports have been adhered to, for too many women, the reality is that their simple questions are not being answered. Those women rightly have simple questions about what is happening to them. When is it going to get better for them? When will they receive treatment? How can they get information? Speaker after speaker has said that we do not have answers for them, or if there are answers, they are incredibly difficult to get, and that is not good enough. We can talk about policy and reports, but the simple reality is that, for nine years, we have been discussing an issue of individual women’s pain and suffering over many years.

I came to the issue through one of my constituents, Samantha Hindle, who has endured 18 years of pain. I have written time and time again to the Government and the health board in an attempt to get her some updates and information about what is happening. Let me outline what has happened after 18 years. Samantha Hindle first approached me in 2019, after she had exhausted every other avenue. I wrote and wrote and we finally got a referral in July 2022, which, I note, was a month after the closure of the fund for reimbursing people if they had already received private treatment.

We then followed up on when an appointment might be received. I wrote twice in December and, in February, we finally got a letter from the health board saying that my constituent had received her treatment. On 23 January, she had apparently had the mesh successfully removed, except that that was news to my constituent. No such appointment had taken place and no such procedure had been carried out. What is more, and what makes it worse, is that she then got an appointment for an ultrasound, which was apparently to locate the mesh and see whether it had been removed.

When she showed up for the appointment, she found out that the ultrasound was not to identify where the mesh was but to investigate her ovarian cysts. Those were cysts that she did not know were suspected and which—guess what?—were never found. Given that we are talking about a person who presented with mesh problems after her MSP had written time and again to the Government and the health board, yet the health board could not even get those basic facts right, what progress have we made?

After that saga, I wrote to the First Minister to say that, on a human level, putting aside policy and commitments, the situation was surely not right. I appealed for an acknowledgement that, on a basic human level, leaving people in the dark without answers was just not right. Unfortunately—this is no reflection on the minister—my letter was handed to the minister and the First Minister did not even reply.

What did we get? We got a list of those self-same initiatives—in other words, that a letter had been written so that NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde would make contact; that work would be undertaken; that training would be in place; that there was a fund, although it was now closed, so my constituent could not apply for it; and, above all else, that there was the prospect of “waiting well”. I have to say that the phrase “waiting well” rings a little hollow for my constituent Samantha Hindle, because the reality is that, after nine years, she still does not know when she will get an appointment, when her situation will get better or what treatment she can get. Until we get such answers for her and the hundreds of women like her, we will continue to fail women who have been implanted with mesh.

17:16  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-10915, in the name of Jenni Minto, on transvaginal mesh. I invite members who wish to participate in the ...
The Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health (Jenni Minto) SNP
The motion to which I speak is on the impact of transvaginal mesh on women’s health, which the Parliament has rightly debated on a number of occasions in thi...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to the minister for giving way. She highlights the important issues that the review has identified, but it is important to understand that this...
Jenni Minto SNP
I believe that the rest of my speech will answer a lot of Daniel Johnson’s questions. The Glasgow mesh service is listening to women and amending the way tha...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
I am listening with interest, and I will obviously have an opportunity to say more in my contribution. Does the minister not accept that, for most women at t...
Jenni Minto SNP
I thank Jackson Carlaw for his intervention, and I recognise the fantastic work that he has done in supporting women in this situation. Women have the optio...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
At the outset, I want to recognise the hundreds of mesh-injured women who have fought so hard for so long for their voices to be heard. They have lived with ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Does the member agree that alignment will happen only once every person who has survived mesh knows what treatment they will get and is satisfied with the ou...
Tess White Con
I strongly support and echo that. Women need to build back trust. The minister talked about building trust, but the fact that not a single one of Professor B...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Mesh campaigners have had to fight for many years for action on their concerns and the reality is that, despite the parallel universe set out by the minister...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
In the seven years for which I have been an MSP, I have spoken on the subject of transvaginal mesh several times, as have many of the speakers in this aftern...
Jackson Carlaw Con
I mean no disrespect to the minister, but Mr Cole-Hamilton mentioned the many debates on the subject in which he has participated, and I note that, in nearly...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
That observation is correct. This debate, like those that preceded it, will be watched far beyond the chamber by the many victims of mesh, who will share Jac...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I give a reminder, as we move into the open debate, that we are very tight for time, so we will stick to the allotted speaking times. 16:23
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This debate on what is a tragic and complicated issue is one of many in which I have taken part, as has Alex Cole-Hamilton, since I was elected in 2016. I w...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a practising NHS GP. In the past two decades, some 20,000 women in Scotland underwe...
Evelyn Tweed (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
As we have heard, complications relating to the use of vaginal mesh have caused widespread and severe symptoms in thousands of women. Those patients have bee...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I start by paying tribute to the tireless campaigning of mesh-injured women. It is their campaigning that has been the driving force for much of the progress...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Ms Clark, I ask you to conclude.
Katy Clark Lab
I very much look forward to hearing the minister’s response to my points. 16:48
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I am speaking in the debate because, as I have previously mentioned in the chamber, I have met several of my constituents who have suffered with the horrors ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Stuart McMillan is right to say that this is not about hindsight. However, the reality is that acknowledging recommendations is not enough. Too many women ar...
Stuart McMillan SNP
I do not disagree at all. I have spoken in similar debates in the past. My comments in those are on the record, so if the member wishes to go and have a look...
Stuart McMillan SNP
Two wee seconds. The contrast was stark. I welcome that change, but it does not take away the mental challenges that those women have had to endure for many...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
Like many others, I pay tribute to the incredible efforts of the mesh survivors in bringing this issue to light in order to secure justice. Their bravery and...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
Like many, if not all, members, I have heard from constituents over the years whose lives were devastated as a result of mesh implants. As we know, mesh was ...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
I have raised questions about vaginal mesh in the chamber before and have written articles in support of the women affected, and I welcome the chance to spea...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
When we have discussed transvaginal mesh in previous debates, I have started by paying tribute to fellow MSPs who have campaigned on the issue. However, I do...
David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate. As always, I extend my gratitude to the campaigners, medical professionals, researchers and cons...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I am grateful to the member for taking an intervention. We have debated the Cumberlege report before, which proposed a redress scheme. Can the member shed an...