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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 October 2023

24 Oct 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Transvaginal Mesh
Mackay, Gillian Green Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

Like many others, I pay tribute to the incredible efforts of the mesh survivors in bringing this issue to light in order to secure justice. Their bravery and determination are an inspiration to us all.

I also want to mention the efforts of the MSPs who have raised the issue previously, including the “meshketeers”—Jackson Carlaw, Neil Findlay and Alex Neil. I know that all three have been champions of the issue for a long time.

The final report of the transvaginal mesh case record review carefully sets out what a long journey it has been for mesh survivors and how far we still have to go to restore justice fully. I want to focus on a few of the report’s findings and how they relate to transparency and the rebuilding of trust.

One such finding is that, in a number of cases, there was a lack of clarity in the case records. Some notes were misleading, while others

“did not bear any reflection to the surgery that had occurred, nor its outcomes.”

The report notes that, in some cases, misleading or missing information from case records led to a breakdown of trust between the patient and their clinician, as women felt that they could not trust what was in their records. That lack of trust fed into many wider areas within the NHS. One quote from the report stands out:

“I’ve lost a lot of trust in the NHS and that doesn’t just apply to mesh. It applies to everything”.

The health service is meant to care for us and to keep us safe and well. I cannot imagine the betrayal that some of the women must have felt.

Rebuilding trust will necessarily be a long process. The report makes a number of recommendations in that regard, such as organisations providing patients with an explanation of why certain information has been redacted and keeping a detailed set of medical notes of the dialogue between clinicians and patients. I would appreciate it if the minister could set out any work that is being done to provide that to patients.

Another important point that is made in the report is that we need to continue to listen to the women who are affected by mesh. It states:

“Having to exclude the lived experiences of the women from the practicalities of what could be evidenced in the case records, has made the Panel realise that the mechanics of a case record review cannot address the more nuanced parts of a lived experience ... Something more inclusive is required”.

It is essential that we continue to listen to and record people’s lived experiences in order to gain a comprehensive understanding of the impact of transvaginal mesh. The case record review provides us with valuable evidence about what went wrong and where improvements can be made, but it cannot capture the pain, anguish and frustration that many mesh survivors have felt. We need to support them to tell their stories, not only so that we can learn from them but because they deserve to be heard.

Many of the personal testimonies that are included in the report were heartbreaking to read. Women described feelings of awkwardness, shame and embarrassment, as well as a loss of autonomy and self-worth. Many cited social isolation as a result of mesh complications, and that isolation will inevitably have been worsened by the Covid-19 pandemic. Some find themselves having to plan going out around when and how they can access a toilet, or having to explain to friends and family members that they are unable to sit for long periods of time.

Those involved in the review spoke to women who are now being advised by clinicians that nothing more can be done for them surgically, which might result in additional trauma. The report illustrates the importance of providing mesh survivors with wraparound support that addresses their emotional needs as well as their physical needs. In the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee and in the chamber previously, I have spoken about the need for on-going mental health support for mesh survivors. They need targeted, specific counselling that takes account of the trauma that they have experienced.

We also need to ensure that people are properly supported to engage with information gathering. Those involved in the review heard from women who described their fatigue at continually having to tell their stories. One woman said:

“Wherever you turn you just don’t feel heard. You really don’t. It’s like here’s another survey or here’s another whatever, you know? The wee bit of energy you’ve got you are trying to fight to help”.

People need to know that action is being taken as a result of their sharing their story. The worst thing that we could do is cause people to disengage with the process. It has been such a long road for them, and they have had to fight every step of the way.

The report identifies several steps in the patient journey where improvements can be made. One example relates to the referral process. The report characterises the operation of the referral system as “confusing”, with the need for

“further explanation so that it is clear where the responsibility for patient care may lie at any given point and what might be expected from their care journey.”

I will end by once again paying tribute to mesh survivors. As the motion states, there is

“continuing improvement in support, informed by the views of affected women”.

We are taking significant steps towards righting a terrible wrong. The report highlights the importance of centring lived experience as we continue on this journey.

17:00  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-10915, in the name of Jenni Minto, on transvaginal mesh. I invite members who wish to participate in the ...
The Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health (Jenni Minto) SNP
The motion to which I speak is on the impact of transvaginal mesh on women’s health, which the Parliament has rightly debated on a number of occasions in thi...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to the minister for giving way. She highlights the important issues that the review has identified, but it is important to understand that this...
Jenni Minto SNP
I believe that the rest of my speech will answer a lot of Daniel Johnson’s questions. The Glasgow mesh service is listening to women and amending the way tha...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
I am listening with interest, and I will obviously have an opportunity to say more in my contribution. Does the minister not accept that, for most women at t...
Jenni Minto SNP
I thank Jackson Carlaw for his intervention, and I recognise the fantastic work that he has done in supporting women in this situation. Women have the optio...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
At the outset, I want to recognise the hundreds of mesh-injured women who have fought so hard for so long for their voices to be heard. They have lived with ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Does the member agree that alignment will happen only once every person who has survived mesh knows what treatment they will get and is satisfied with the ou...
Tess White Con
I strongly support and echo that. Women need to build back trust. The minister talked about building trust, but the fact that not a single one of Professor B...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Mesh campaigners have had to fight for many years for action on their concerns and the reality is that, despite the parallel universe set out by the minister...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
In the seven years for which I have been an MSP, I have spoken on the subject of transvaginal mesh several times, as have many of the speakers in this aftern...
Jackson Carlaw Con
I mean no disrespect to the minister, but Mr Cole-Hamilton mentioned the many debates on the subject in which he has participated, and I note that, in nearly...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
That observation is correct. This debate, like those that preceded it, will be watched far beyond the chamber by the many victims of mesh, who will share Jac...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I give a reminder, as we move into the open debate, that we are very tight for time, so we will stick to the allotted speaking times. 16:23
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This debate on what is a tragic and complicated issue is one of many in which I have taken part, as has Alex Cole-Hamilton, since I was elected in 2016. I w...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a practising NHS GP. In the past two decades, some 20,000 women in Scotland underwe...
Evelyn Tweed (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
As we have heard, complications relating to the use of vaginal mesh have caused widespread and severe symptoms in thousands of women. Those patients have bee...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I start by paying tribute to the tireless campaigning of mesh-injured women. It is their campaigning that has been the driving force for much of the progress...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Ms Clark, I ask you to conclude.
Katy Clark Lab
I very much look forward to hearing the minister’s response to my points. 16:48
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I am speaking in the debate because, as I have previously mentioned in the chamber, I have met several of my constituents who have suffered with the horrors ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Stuart McMillan is right to say that this is not about hindsight. However, the reality is that acknowledging recommendations is not enough. Too many women ar...
Stuart McMillan SNP
I do not disagree at all. I have spoken in similar debates in the past. My comments in those are on the record, so if the member wishes to go and have a look...
Stuart McMillan SNP
Two wee seconds. The contrast was stark. I welcome that change, but it does not take away the mental challenges that those women have had to endure for many...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
Like many others, I pay tribute to the incredible efforts of the mesh survivors in bringing this issue to light in order to secure justice. Their bravery and...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
Like many, if not all, members, I have heard from constituents over the years whose lives were devastated as a result of mesh implants. As we know, mesh was ...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
I have raised questions about vaginal mesh in the chamber before and have written articles in support of the women affected, and I welcome the chance to spea...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
When we have discussed transvaginal mesh in previous debates, I have started by paying tribute to fellow MSPs who have campaigned on the issue. However, I do...
David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate. As always, I extend my gratitude to the campaigners, medical professionals, researchers and cons...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I am grateful to the member for taking an intervention. We have debated the Cumberlege report before, which proposed a redress scheme. Can the member shed an...