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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 October 2023

04 Oct 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Two-child Benefit Cap

That is not the case. As the member clearly knows, the policy is about fairness for working families as well—all families having to take difficult decisions. There is a political consensus on helping parents into work, which should be a Government priority. That requires a balanced system that provides strong work incentives and supports those who need it but that ensures fairness in our taxation system for all working families in this country.

The cabinet secretary did not mention this today, but it is a fact that the UK Government has provided more than £94 billion in direct support to help families during the cost of living crisis. The overall approach by the UK Government is evidenced by the fact that, between 2016 and 2022, the number of people in couples with children in employment has increased by 372,000 across the UK, which is a 2.7 per cent increase in the employment rate for that group.

It is right that the Government recognises that some claimants are not able to make the same choices about the number of children in their family, which is why reforms have been progressed by UK ministers. They have listened and have brought forward exceptions to protect certain groups, and many of us argued and worked constructively with ministers to make that case and ensure that those changes were made. Child benefit can be paid to all children, and the additional amount in child tax credit or universal credit can be paid for any qualifying disabled child or young person.

It is important to note that the cabinet secretary did not want to highlight the fact that, through working tax credit and universal credit, additional help for eligible childcare costs is available regardless of the total number of children in a household. The reduction in the universal credit taper rate and the £500 increase to work allowance, in addition to the normal benefit uprating and alongside the landmark kickstart and restart schemes, demonstrates a focus on supporting families to move into progressive work.

A critical issue that many families continue to face is that of the availability and accessibility of affordable childcare, which is a significant challenge and is clearly impacting on many parents’ decision to take up paid work and the ability of many to increase their working hours. I know from constituents who have contacted me about the issue that people are finding it more and more difficult to access childcare, with families having less flexibility to take up work and training opportunities.

The failure of SNP and Green ministers to deliver on the Scottish Government’s own policy of 1,140 hours of funded early learning and childcare for three and four-year-olds is not helping to provide that opportunity for people to access the childcare that they need to take up employment or training.

Today, the National Day Nurseries Association warned that

“Childcare businesses in around a third of local authority areas begin the new academic year without knowing how much they are being paid for funded places.”

This afternoon, we could have debated that crisis facing our nursery sector and the fact that just three of Scotland’s 32 local authorities are increasing early learning and childcare entitlement.

As I have said, there is a political consensus that the most suitable way to lift children out of poverty is to support their parents into progressive work, wherever possible. Children living in workless households are approximately five times more likely to be in poverty than those living in households where all adults are working. We should work on the consensus that exists to find solutions.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-10716, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on reversal of the United Kingdom Government’s two-child b...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I am pleased to open the debate and to call unequivocally on the UK Government to end the harmful and discriminatory two-child limit and the abhorrent rape c...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Can the cabinet secretary explain to the chamber why, in April 2019, she said to The Times: “It’s not our policy to alleviate the two-child cap”? Indeed, s...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
There is the irony—I have to mitigate not only what the Tories are doing, but the Labour Party, too. What a sad indictment of where Scottish Labour is now. I...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
The cabinet secretary’s policy calls on the UK Government to find £300 million. Where does she suggest that UK ministers find that money?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I assure Miles Briggs that I am coming to that. I have a suggested solution, and I am sure that we will hear many more during today’s debate. That money doe...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am interested to know what discussions you have had with the First Minister about the U-turns around school meals. Could you discuss with us how often you ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I ask members to speak through the chair. I call the cabinet secretary.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Indeed, if there had been a U-turn I would have discussed it, but there has been none and therefore no need to have that conversation. It is clear, more t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can advise the chamber that there is a bit of time in hand, so there should be time to recompense members who take interventions. That is all the more reas...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am always pleased to be able to debate welfare in the Parliament, and I welcome the fact that the Government has brought forward the debate. However, perha...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Miles Briggs Con
No. Can I make some progress? I will be happy to take the member’s intervention later. It is hard to think of any UK Government in recent history, except pe...
Kate Forbes SNP
The member has talked a lot about duty, and I thought that I would make my question more topical. His Prime Minister has today talked about the importance of...
Miles Briggs Con
That is not the case. As the member clearly knows, the policy is about fairness for working families as well—all families having to take difficult decisions....
Carol Mochan Lab
Can the member tell me whether he and his colleagues accept that the Westminster Conservative Government’s approach to benefits means that many families find...
Miles Briggs Con
I am always in favour of the DWP and Social Security Scotland having discussions about how we simplify access to benefits. That is something that both depart...
The Minister for Equalities, Migration and Refugees (Emma Roddick) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Miles Briggs Con
I would like to make some progress; I have only a few minutes left. I will see if I have time to let the member in later on. Recent SNP-Green cuts to, for e...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I have very much enjoyed the member’s speech on childcare and employability, but I wonder whether we could get back to the point of the motion. Can he tell t...
Miles Briggs Con
As I have said, these are difficult decisions, and Governments have had to take them. The cabinet secretary has also got to think about that. However, the fa...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Miles Briggs Con
No. I am coming to a conclusion. The Scottish Government has the ability to top up reserved benefits if it wishes, and we, as a Parliament, have the opportu...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We meet this afternoon in the middle of challenge poverty week, and, as I have said before in the chamber, there are few issues as important as tackling pove...
Kate Forbes SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Paul O’Kane Lab
I will in a moment. Perhaps we are meeting in that context rather than for the wide-ranging, constructive debate that we could be having about challenging p...
Kate Forbes SNP
The member rightly talks about poverty being quite a wide issue. Peter Kelly, of the Poverty Alliance, has described the benefit cap as “the worst of the” ...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I am coming on to speak about why universal credit does not work and why it needs to be fundamentally reformed. We need to see wide-ranging change, because i...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I am interested in the Labour amendment, which talks about the “New Deal for Working People”, There are a lot of reasonable things that I absolutely agree ...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I thank Mr Doris for his supportive comments on the new deal for working people. I hope that he might convince members on the front bench to back our amendme...