Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 03 October 2023
03 Oct 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Parliament Powers
I totally believe in the need for a legislative consent mechanism, but I do not think that the specifics require an explanation from the UK Government—that is not necessarily advisable. After all, under the Scotland Act 1998, it is permissible for the UK Government to legislate in devolved areas. That is a matter of law and it is a founding principle of this Parliament. We have the Sewel convention to enable the UK Parliament to legislate in devolved areas where necessary. I will come back to Sewel in a moment.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-10703, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on protection of Scottish Parliament powers. Members who wish to par...
The Minister for Independence (Jamie Hepburn)
SNP
This debate fulfils a commitment that I made during a members’ business debate on a similar range of concerns, which Keith Brown brought before the Parliamen...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
Yes—briefly.
Martin Whitfield
Lab
Much of what the minister has said carries resonance, but have the past 16 years not also been a missed opportunity for the Scottish Government to devolve po...
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
The actions and the role of local government are of critical importance to the people who live in our communities. In that regard, we place the highest impor...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
Our constituents elect us to this chamber to discuss, debate and scrutinise legislation and to assist them with their problems, whether they be ordinary or e...
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
Would Donald Cameron not recognise that what I set out on the UK Energy Bill was precisely that—it was a take-it-or leave-it approach? The UK Government is d...
Donald Cameron
Con
I will come to that in a moment. The arguments that we have just heard are not rational; that was just empty rhetoric from the minister. Let me state some h...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron
Con
No—I will not. I want to make some progress. As the Scottish Conservatives’ amendment states, “the UK Government is investing directly in Scotland and is w...
Martin Whitfield
Lab
Will the member give way?
Donald Cameron
Con
Very briefly.
Martin Whitfield
Lab
I inquire about Donald Cameron’s view of the value of legislative consent motions. Should they be sought by the Westminster Government? If, for whatever reas...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Mr Cameron, I can give you time back for interventions.
Donald Cameron
Con
I totally believe in the need for a legislative consent mechanism, but I do not think that the specifics require an explanation from the UK Government—that i...
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron
Con
No—I am sorry; I do not have time. I have already gone through that. Let me touch on a few other issues. Section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998 is frequently m...
Clare Adamson
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron
Con
I will in a second. Every member of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee has acknowledged that the Sewel convention is under str...
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron
Con
I will in a moment. I will just finish this point. As I have previously noted, we regularly pass legislative consent motions in the Parliament without a div...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Will you resume your seat for a second, Mr Cameron? Minister, you know as well as I do that it is up to members whether to take interventions. Okay? You hav...
Donald Cameron
Con
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. What about the times when the Scottish Government has brought ludicrous arguments about not consenting? I refer to the ...
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
Does Mr Cameron think that it is peculiar when he says that the Sewel convention is being used normally? In the period from when the Parliament was convened ...
Donald Cameron
Con
As I have just said, in 2021 alone, the Scottish Government consented to eight bills.
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Donald Cameron
Con
No, I will not. The Sewel convention is working. To characterise it as at risk or collapsing is ludicrous. Week in, week out, we consent to Westminster legi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I appreciate that we are going to have some excitable debate at times, but there is a bit of time in hand to take interventions, so contributions should be m...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate. After a number of turbulent years for devolution, I will start with a point of general agreeme...