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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 June 2023

14 Jun 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
NHS Waiting Times
MacGregor, Fulton SNP Coatbridge and Chryston Watch on SPTV

I cannot—I am sorry.

That applies to the health service not only in Scotland but in Northern Ireland, Wales and England. The Labour motion completely fails to acknowledge that, but it is the reality of the situation. We are not alone in that.

It is true that the Scottish Government decides policy and funding for the NHS, and it is also true that the Scottish Government funds the NHS to a higher level, proportionately, than other Governments across the UK—[Interruption.]

It is the Labour Party members, and their friends in the Tory party, who do not like those facts.

The SNP-led Government’s £100 billion NHS recovery plan has delivered a significant reduction in the number of two-year out-patient waits. The waiting time targets have already led to a substantial increase in the number of patients seen, with almost 56,000 in-patients or day cases, and more than 311,000 out-patients, seen in the quarter to the end of December 2022. Those are the highest numbers of patients seen since the onset of the Covid pandemic.

With regard to staffing, once again, we must consider the issue in the wider context of the rest of the UK. Since the SNP first entered government, NHS staffing has increased by 22.7 per cent. Recent research from the end of 2022 shows that NHS Scotland has higher staffing per head than NHS England. Scotland has also invested in the future sustainability of the NHS, with NHS agenda for change staff being paid better here than anywhere else in the UK.

There is an issue with bank staff—as MSPs, we all hear that. Perhaps the cabinet secretary can reflect on that in summing up, because a lot of staff are saying that they can get better pay as bank staff.

Finally, the motion touches on the rise in the number of patients having to pay for private care, and it is important to analyse that increase in a wider context. The rise in the number of people paying for private healthcare is, again, not unique to Scotland; it affects health services right across the UK. Wales has similar rates, and self-pay admissions have been at their highest or joint highest levels over the past four years in eight out of nine English regions.

The rise in the number of patients across the UK having to use private healthcare is very concerning to me, and it is probably concerning for others. However, unlike the Tories—and perhaps Labour as well—who might be happy for our NHS to be run by private providers like in England, and Labour, whose private finance initiative policies caused unprecedented damage to our NHS, the Scottish Government continues to support the principle of a public service that is free at the point of use and need.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-09462, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on taking action on national health service waiting times. I ask me...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
There are 779,533 patients on waiting lists in Scotland. That is one in seven Scots, and it is the highest number of people waiting since records began. At t...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Will Jackie Baillie give way?
Jackie Baillie Lab
No, I do not have time. All those numbers are, of course, people whose lives are put on hold while they wait, often in pain, to get the medical care that th...
The Cabinet Secretary for NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care (Michael Matheson) SNP
Let me start by acknowledging the importance of this topic. I welcome the opportunity to highlight the progress that has been made by our NHS and, equally, t...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Michael Matheson SNP
Data on our 18-month out-patient target shows that the number of people waiting more than 78 weeks reduced by 48.5 per cent between June last year and March ...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Michael Matheson SNP
I will give way to Jackie Baillie, because she was first.
Jackie Baillie Lab
The cabinet secretary will of course realise that the targets that his predecessor set were to completely eradicate those waiting lists—he did not say, “Redu...
Michael Matheson SNP
As I have outlined, we are making steady progress and seeing capacity increase in our NHS in order to continue to reduce those waiting lists. All that work ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Sandesh Gulhane to speak to and move amendment S6M-09462.1 for up to four minutes. 15:03
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests: I am a practising NHS general practitioner. Our heroic NHS staff have been failed by the ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful to Jackie Baillie for securing time for this important debate. I would say that I am happy to speak in it, but that would be a lie. I mean, her...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate and back-bench speeches of up to four minutes. 15:12
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I appreciate that the SNP has other things to be worried about this week, but Scottish Labour remains firmly focused on the priorities of Scottish people. Th...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Carol Mochan Lab
I will not take an intervention, thank you. Members need to listen to this. They need to live with the decisions that they make in that regard. Like others,...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the debate. It is right that we look at the NHS. However, I sometimes think, when Labour brings these health issues to the chamber, that its membe...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Sixteen years ago.
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
That was 16 years ago—what is happening now?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
Members are saying “16 years”, but that is—
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I will not be taking any interventions, because I have only four minutes—Labour should have picked a time when there was longer for debate. The key issue in...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take a brief intervention on that point?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I cannot—I am sorry. That applies to the health service not only in Scotland but in Northern Ireland, Wales and England. The Labour motion completely fails ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the member give way?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
No, I will not.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member is about to conclude.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
The Scottish Government supported buy-outs of hospital car parks in Glasgow and Dundee last year and supported the ending of private finance initiative contr...