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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 31 May 2023

31 May 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education (National Discussion)
Gilruth, Jenny SNP Mid Fife and Glenrothes Watch on SPTV

I thank Willie Rennie for his point. I will come on to talk about the challenge that is presented in the report in relation to the issue that he addressed. He will also be well versed in the increase that there has been in pupils with additional support needs in the past 10 years. I think that just over one third of all pupils in Scotland now have some level of identified additional support need.

There is more that the Government will need to do, but I also recognise that, ultimately, the situation is about partnerships. It is about local authorities and wider partnerships in the school communities. I will come on to talk about that in my response. However, this is not the Government’s full response to the report, which, as we heard, was embargoed until 10 minutes to 3 today.

More broadly on the member’s point, the report does not sit in isolation. We also have the Hayward review of qualifications in the senior phase and the Withers review of skills delivery. We need to have a holistic and coherent approach across Government in relation to the future of Scottish education. I will say more about that in my remarks.

Back in 2002, when I was in my last year at school, the then Scottish Executive launched a national debate on schools for the 21st century. That debate generated more than 1,500 responses, and it was estimated that more than 20,000 people took part. Twenty-one years later, the national discussion reached an estimated 38,000 people, with more than 5,600 responses being submitted. I am indebted to Professor Carol Campbell and Professor Alma Harris, both of whom are internationally respected education experts and members of our international council of education advisers, which facilitated the national discussion. Today, I thank them personally for their commitment and dedication. I also pay tribute to every person and organisation that took part in the discussion.

The national discussion is the biggest engagement exercise ever to have taken place in Scottish education. It was co-convened by the Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, and there can be no doubt that the discussion had children and young people at its heart, and that, in general, it was consensual.

A number of events and discussions took place in every part of Scotland. Those were led by schools, community groups and third sector organisations, supported by the Scottish Government and local authorities. We heard from parents, primary school pupils, island communities, young carers, children with additional support needs, teachers, trade unions, early years practitioners and speakers of Gaelic and Scots, to name just some.

Time and again, the facilitators were told by participants that they welcomed the opportunity to give their views and that they wanted more opportunities for engagement, so I commit today to ensuring that engagement opportunities will continue to be provided throughout our education reform programme. We must get this right for the next generation, and we cannot do that without continuing to listen.

The agreed vision states:

“Children and young people are at the heart of education in Scotland. The Scottish education system is grounded in collaborative partnerships that engage all learners, the people who work within and with the education system, parents, and carers to ensure that all learners in Scotland matter.

All learners are supported in inclusive learning environments which are safe, welcoming, caring, and proactively address any barriers to learning and inequities that exist or arise. Education in Scotland nurtures the unique talents of all learners ensuring their achievement, progress, and well-being.

Each child and young person in Scotland has high-quality learning experiences which respect their rights and represents the diversity of who they are and the communities they live in.

Each child and young person receives great teaching, resources, and support for joyful learning that builds their confidence and equips them to be successful and to contribute in their life, work, and world, so they know how much they matter.”

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-09123, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on let’s talk education—the national discussion. 14:56
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I am pleased to lead a debate during Scottish Government time on our national discussion on education. Professor Ken Muir’s review, “Putting Learners at the ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I thank the cabinet secretary for the open-door approach that she has adopted so far in her new position. She will have seen that additional support needs ge...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you the time back.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I thank Willie Rennie for his point. I will come on to talk about the challenge that is presented in the report in relation to the issue that he addressed. H...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am not sure whether the cabinet secretary has just read out a statement of her objectives or whether she is trying to reflect reality. I hope that it is th...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Heaven forfend that I do not live up to Mr Kerr’s expectations. In all seriousness, the vision that I have set out to Parliament is the vision from the docum...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I have just left a round-table meeting on children with additional support needs. One comment that was made was that the only certain thing in education is r...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am happy to give Pam Duncan-Glancy absolute reassurance on that. We need to move forward at pace on reform, but we also need to ensure that we continue to ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Stephen Kerr to speak to and to move amendment S6M-09213.3, for around nine minutes. 15:10
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
As I tried to intervene on the cabinet secretary to say, it is important that we have an honest discussion about where we are in Scotland with our education ...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am more than happy to do that, but Stephen Kerr needs to reflect on the fact that the national discussion did not come about in relation to the current Fir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I would encourage interventions to be a little briefer, not only from the cabinet secretary but also from Mr Kerr himself. Mr Kerr, I can give you some of t...
Stephen Kerr Con
Thank you very much. Well, there we have it—that was the response from the cabinet secretary. But this Government is now in its 17th year in office. It cann...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Does Stephen Kerr agree that, after 17 years, it should be of extreme concern that the young people who responded to the consultation expressed a fear about ...
Stephen Kerr Con
I will quote from paragraph 9.3 of the report: “We heard many concerns about whether the National Discussion would lead to genuine action and significant ch...
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP) SNP
Does the member welcome the fact that, on the most recent data, a record number of young people—95.7 per cent—are leaving Scottish education to go to positiv...
Stephen Kerr Con
I welcome positive destinations, but, under the definition that the Government uses, positive destinations can mean just about anything. The information is t...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Stephen Kerr Con
I do not know whether I have time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I will give you a little time back, if Ross Greer is brief.
Ross Greer Green
I strongly agree with the need for more autonomy in schools. The member may be familiar with proposals that were made in the past parliamentary session for a...
Stephen Kerr Con
The best leaders in any walks of life are those who lead teams of people. That is a fact, so I do not disagree with that. Secondly, there is a great deal ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is always a privilege to open for Scottish Labour to discuss education. The education system is where children grow and learn, and it is the foundation of...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I will read an abridged quotation from the report. It states: “In my class of 30, 4 have ASD ... 3 ... have long-standing separation anxiety difficulties .....
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Mr Rennie actually quoted from the part of the report from which I was going to quote. I very much agree about the presumption about mainstream education, bu...
Willie Rennie LD
To be frank, I do not know. I hear reports of teachers who really struggle to cope with a variety of demands. I think that they would love to have great dive...
John Swinney SNP
I think that Willie Rennie has alighted on a very serious issue about the length of contracts that are given to newly qualified teachers. Does he acknowledge...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you some of that time back.
Willie Rennie LD
I think that John Swinney is right. There is a partnership that involves working with local authorities to make this work. The Government did make an improve...