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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 May 2023

24 May 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Ending Violence in Schools
Gilruth, Jenny SNP Mid Fife and Glenrothes Watch on SPTV

I would really like to make some progress. I am now seven minutes in and have a number of other points that I would like to make—apologies.

That group includes representatives from COSLA and teaching associations, parents and carers, and it is jointly chaired by COSLA. We do not need another working group at this point; we need a call to action. Indeed, the chair of the National Parent Forum of Scotland told BBC Radio Scotland this morning that we need a wider community approach. We cannot expect schools to solve all those problems on their own.

The Government amendment proposes to convene a summit on behaviour in our schools, bringing together parents and carers, local councils, our teacher professional associations, young people and wider partners.

We need to trust our teachers, and we need to support them, and we have heard that point made in the debate today. That is why our councils, who have a statutory responsibility to deliver education, have a key role to play.

We should not tolerate a blame culture in our schools, as I discussed recently at the Scottish Secondary Teachers Association’s annual conference. If a member of staff is struggling with a challenging class, as Mr Kerr alluded to, they should not be made to feel that they are the problem; they should be supported.

Last week I addressed Parliament on our behaviour in Scottish schools research, which is currently under way. That research is critically important in building our understanding of exactly what is happening in our classrooms, including what underlying factors might be affecting behaviour.

This is the fifth wave of behaviour in Scottish schools research since 2006, and Stephen Kerr is quite right to say that the last one was in 2016. It should have been carried out in 2020, but, because of the pandemic, it was not. Since I have been in post, I have asked whether it is possible to have the information earlier. It is not, because of the way in which the data is gathered, but in the interim I accept the challenge to Government that we need to act.

The Government is already providing more than £2 million to support the delivery of a wide range of violence prevention activities in schools and communities. When incidents occur in schools, we accept that there should be an appropriate and consistent method of recording them. If members have not already appraised themselves of the inspection that Her Majesty’s inspector of education carried out in 2019, in relation to bullying, I ask them to please do so, because it shows a mixed picture in relation to how such incidents are recorded in schools. I suspect that there would be a similarly mixed picture on the recording of violent incidents in schools and more challenging behaviour generally. We need to address that at the summit.

I accept that the Opposition has gathered freedom of information data from individual local councils, but there are some challenges with that—for example, not all local authorities provided data in response to the request. I am also aware that councils use a variety of different approaches to gathering data on violent incidents—as I alluded to. We need to be mindful that the robust data that we gather from BISSR will give us a more accurate picture of the national approach.

Presiding Officer, I am conscious of the time.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-09126, in the name of Stephen Kerr, on ending violence in Scottish schools. I invite members who wish to ...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
This debate is taking place because we need to address the unacceptable level of violence and disruption in our schools. My colleagues can attest to the fact...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I declare my interest as a former employee of East Lothian Council. Does the member agree that, although there is much to be grateful for in the Conservativ...
Stephen Kerr Con
I agree with my Labour colleague that the issue is a matter of urgency. The summit should be inclusive. It should include young people, but let us please en...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I remind the chamber that my wife is an additional support needs teacher. Teachers in my constituency have told me of their frustration at the Scottish Gove...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We have a little time in hand, but interventions will have to be a little bit briefer. I can give you some of that time back, Mr Kerr.
Stephen Kerr Con
Liam Kerr makes a very good point. The Jenny Gilruth of last Tuesday probably conveyed that impression when she answered a topical question from my friend Ja...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Does my colleague agree that the continued erosion of after-school clubs, youth clubs and extracurricular activities that has been perpetrated by this Govern...
Stephen Kerr Con
We have to make the school experience the holistic educational experience that many of us enjoyed when we were at school. That heritage is the birthright of ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I thank the Conservatives for the opportunity to discuss an issue that is of vital importance to the education of our children and young people. As the motio...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I think that I was probably one of the last people in Scotland to get the belt, as it was abolished just after I left school—I am not sure whether there was ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, cabinet secretary.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I recognise Mr Rennie’s comments, although I will not comment on his experience in school. The issue that he outlines is reflected in some of my experience i...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Is the cabinet secretary confident that the data is identifying that small but, I would say, significant group of pupils who are struggling to return to scho...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
In all honesty, no, I am not, and I have asked officials for further advice on that. I receive the national picture, and it is broken down by local authority...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I will take the intervention from former teaching colleague Liz Smith, but then I would like to make some progress.
Liz Smith Con
The cabinet secretary has just replied to me in a parliamentary written answer about pupil equity funding, giving me the updated figures. She knows that a ve...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I recognise that point, and I also recognise the member’s interest in the issue. I think that she is taking forward a member’s bill on that. I very much reco...
Stephen Kerr Con
I make a very brief intervention to say that that is exactly why we must deal with the issue of school violence. The vast majority of our children go to scho...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you the time back for the interventions.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I agree with Mr Kerr. The Conservative motion talks about a working group. I am not against that suggestion per se, but we already have a working group in t...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I would really like to make some progress. I am now seven minutes in and have a number of other points that I would like to make—apologies. That group inclu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you a bit of time back for the interventions.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Thank you. Excluding a child or young person from school—whatever the circumstances—is an extremely serious step, and it is one that no teacher would take l...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I wish those headteachers more success than the Presiding Officer is sometimes able to achieve. 15:13
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
The transformative power of a good, world-leading education system can never be overstated. I know that first hand. My experience is not unique and it was no...
Stephen Kerr Con
Pam Duncan-Glancy mentioned mental health and support. Does she support our suggestion—our demand—that there be a national helpline just for teachers who fac...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back.