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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 May 2023

09 May 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Trauma-informed Justice for Victims and Witnesses
Chapman, Maggie Green North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I refer colleagues to my entry in the register of members’ interests.

I begin by expressing my heartfelt thanks to all the people who are involved in supporting and advocating on behalf of survivors and victims of all forms of violence and those who witness such violence. Structural inequalities and intersectional layers of oppression mean that far too many people are still subjected to abuses of power that cause life-changing—and, sometimes, life-ending—physical and mental harm. Too many of those people go on to be retraumatised by a system that should provide solace, compassion and justice. We should not accept that as inevitable.

We often hear of the mind-blowing resilience of survivors and witnesses and of the mutual support that they can give one another when adequate resources allow for safe and confidential sharing of stories where they are believed and not judged. We should be truly grateful to all those who provide such safe spaces and support victims, survivors and witnesses, often putting their own wellbeing at risk. Vicarious trauma is real. Workers who support victims, survivors and witnesses of violence are subjected to the risk of vicarious trauma every day. Those workers do phenomenally important work and are incredibly resilient.

However, we should not have to rely on the resilience of individuals. There is nothing inevitable about the violence that leads to trauma. It is a consequence of often intersecting inequalities. It is a direct result of imbalances of power. Therefore, our justice system should ensure that it does not reinforce such imbalances of power in any element of its operation. That is why this debate and the bill and wider trauma-informed justice framework that we are discussing today are so important.

I put on record my thanks to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs and, especially, to her predecessor, Keith Brown, for their determination to introduce the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill and their commitment to achieving that.

At its heart, the bill seeks to reorient our justice system towards compassion and care and to put victims, survivors and witnesses at its centre, with a trauma-informed approach embedded throughout.

Trauma is complex and multifaceted. It incorporates both the experience of actual physical or emotional harm or threat and the whole context of that event or series of events and circumstances. It is contained in both the immediate experience of harm or threat and the longer-term repercussions of that harm or threat, even if far removed or detached from it. As one person put it when contributing to the significant work that has brought us to today, trauma

“isn’t just the event, the trauma is the whole process of the event, what comes after, whether that’s police interview or court case or whatever. So people shouldn’t dismiss their part in that.”

The cabinet secretary and other members have already outlined how much needs to change in our system to ensure that we do not, however inadvertently, compound the injustices that victims, survivors and witnesses face, because any retraumatisation is an injustice in itself.

I hope that the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill will help to address some of the current issues. On behalf of the Scottish Greens, I welcome whole-heartedly the aim of the bill to treat with compassion victims, survivors, witnesses and other vulnerable parties during their journeys throughout a reformed, trauma-informed justice system.

I am very pleased to see, at last, proposals to protect victims and survivors of sexual and some other offences through an automatic lifelong right of anonymity. Similarly, I welcome the commitment to abolish the not proven verdict. Although that is one of the things that marks out as different the Scottish legal system, it is clear that it has been disproportionately applied in crimes of a sexual nature—35 per cent in trials for rape or attempted rape compared with just 17 per cent in other cases. In line with our rights-based approach to policy making, it is right that we give the survivors and, indeed, perpetrators of those crimes the clarity of a binary verdict option: guilty or not guilty.

Scottish Greens have long called for proper support for witnesses and complainers, and I am pleased that the bill proposes an automatic right to state-funded independent legal representation for witnesses and complainers when applications are made to lead evidence of their sexual history in sexual offence cases. However, that does not go far enough. I welcome the Labour amendment on the issue. I hope that, during the forthcoming discussion of the bill, we can push the ILR proposal further.

I welcome the establishment of a specialist sexual offences court. Like other members, I welcome the important shift in approach for supporting children and young people through the justice system.

We have already heard about the very strong views on the proposal to pilot single-judge trials for cases of rape and attempted rape. That proposal comes directly from Lady Dorian’s report of two years ago and follows calls from survivors and their support organisations. It is controversial and is a marked departure from the status quo, but, given how the system is failing, such a departure may be necessary. I will follow the issue with interest as the bill is scrutinised in the coming months.

Other elements in the bill and the wider framework also seek to transform, but I will raise a notable issue that was not included: the abolition of the corroboration that is another distinctive feature of the Scottish system. I thank Speak out Sisters and others for their engagement on the issue and am sure that those conversations will continue.

In closing, I pay tribute to the efforts of the many campaigners, activists, counsellors, advocacy workers, legal professionals and others who have worked tirelessly to ensure that our justice processes can better serve victims and witnesses. I thank the many survivors, victims and families who have shared their experiences in order to improve the justice system. This legislation, and the associated justice framework, testify to their hard work and I hope that we can do them justice in the coming months.

16:26  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-08865, in the name of Angela Constance, entitled “Transforming Justice in Scotland—Person-centred and Tra...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
It is a privilege to lead this debate, which is my first as Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. I want to pay tribute to my predecessor, Keith Br...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the cabinet secretary to her first debate as Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. On the point about when someone is released from pris...
Angela Constance SNP
The member raises an important point about the quality and frequency of engagement with victims throughout their justice journey. He may be aware that an ind...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Jamie Greene to speak to and move amendment S6M-08865.1. 15:29
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I know that you would have wanted to speak in today’s debate but are prohibited from doing so. I welcome the cabinet se...
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Greene Con
I would love to, if I had some extra time, but I am really short.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back.
Jamie Greene Con
In that case, I would be happy to hear Mr Swinney.
John Swinney SNP
I am interested in the development of the member’s argument, because he is in danger of arguing at cross purposes with himself, which I am surprised about, b...
Jamie Greene Con
Let me respond by quoting something to Mr Swinney: “Undermining the foundations of the Scottish justice system to increase conviction rates is a dangerous a...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to speak to the amendment in Pauline McNeill’s name. I thank everyone who has contributed t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Ms Clark. I have been informed that because you are not a signatory to the amendment, you need to indicate your support for the amendment before y...
Katy Clark Lab
I am happy to move the amendment in Pauline McNeill’s name.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Will you say that you support it?
Katy Clark Lab
I definitely support the amendment. I move, amendment S6M-08865.2, to insert at end: “; further notes recent reports of poor experiences of victims within ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
That is a new one for me, too. I call Beatrice Wishart, who joins us online. 15:45
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I thank the Deputy Presiding Officer for granting me permission to leave the debate early, and I apologise to members for having to do so. On behalf of Scot...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move on to the open debate. I inform colleagues that there is absolutely no time in hand, so I would be grateful if all members could stick to their alloc...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the cabinet secretary to her new role. Scotland’s justice system is on the verge of transformation, with changes that I believe will finally put v...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the cabinet secretary to her new role. I am honoured to be contributing on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives to today’s debate on transfo...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I am happy to speak to the Government motion and to support the vision of a just, safe and resilient Scotland that puts victims and witnesses at the heart of...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Although I welcome the debate and the publication of “Trauma Informed Justice: A Knowledge and Skills Framework for Working with Victims and Witnesses”, the ...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
First, I want to acknowledge the bravery of all victims and witnesses who have lived through trauma and experienced the criminal justice system. They deserve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Maggie Chapman, who is joining us remotely. 16:19
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I refer colleagues to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I begin by expressing my heartfelt thanks to all the people who are involved in suppor...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
In the past few years, the complex challenges of the justice system have been widely discussed in this Parliament. That system and our legal processes face c...
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I have listened to the member’s comments about some of the challenges in the Scottish justice system. Does she agree that those are not unique to Scotland? A...
Meghan Gallacher Con
The SNP has been in Government for 15 years, so we might think that it would have put victims at the heart of its programme for government by now. We are see...