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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 May 2023

09 May 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Trauma-informed Justice for Victims and Witnesses

I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to speak to the amendment in Pauline McNeill’s name.

I thank everyone who has contributed to the framework, which is a substantial document. We very much hope that it assists with work across the criminal justice sector to address the multiple ways that the justice system exacerbates the experience of trauma for many victims and witnesses. We also hope that it helps to address the impact of experience of the justice system, which is often described by victims as “retraumatising”.

The framework outlines in detail the impact that psychological trauma can have and the need for a person-centred approach. We support the Scottish Government in work to drive a better understanding of the impact of trauma across the system, but we must recognise that our current criminal justice system deals with those issues very poorly, unfortunately.

The trauma that witnesses experience has been known and discussed for decades. The Scottish Labour Party is currently carrying out our own consultation on ending violence and sexual harassment against women, and Pauline McNeill and I are undertaking meetings throughout the country. The emotional and physical risks and difficulties that victims face pre-trial, during trial and at sentencing are raised again and again.

When the Criminal Justice Committee met rape survivors, we heard harrowing testimony. Rape survivors described extremely poor experiences of the criminal justice system, which they felt let them down. Complainers said that giving evidence and their wider experience of the criminal justice system could be as traumatising as the crime itself. The terms “retraumatising” and “second violation” are repeatedly used.

We do not underestimate the scale of the challenge of changing practice in the justice system, because to deliver the necessary change there needs to be greater awareness of the need for trauma-informed practice, and many aspects of the justice system need to be fundamentally changed. The current legal process is not organised around the needs of victims. We need to consider how we can improve the experience of victims and witnesses and ensure outcomes that deliver in the interests of justice.

We are concerned that the new framework cannot be implemented unless the serious challenges that the criminal justice system currently faces are addressed. We have the highest remand rates in western Europe, crowded prisons, extensive court backlogs, a rise in recorded sexual offences, a shortage of criminal justice social workers and a crisis in legal aid. We know that, during the pandemic, the High Court backlogs disproportionately affected women and children, with sexual crimes amounting to more than two thirds of cases waiting to be heard. Our amendment highlights the retraumatising effect of the court process and the impact of court backlogs and delays on victims.

The Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill, which the cabinet secretary spoke about, allows for complainers in rape cases to have legal representation when the defence wishes to lead evidence in limited circumstances. We support that, but our amendment invites the Scottish Government to explore further the benefits of expanding the legal advice and representation that are available to victims—in particular, in rape cases.

In recent decades, many other countries with adversarial court systems have introduced greater legal advice for victims and enhanced rights to representation for them in the courts. That seems to have significantly improved the experience of victims in those justice systems. We believe that in order to inform the debate we need to look at what is happening elsewhere.

It is worth saying that Scotland is lagging behind much of Europe on victims’ rights. For example, in Denmark, victims are entitled to state-funded legal advice at the reporting stage, and before and during trial. In Spain, female victims of gender violence have the right to free legal advice, regardless of their resources. In Norway, victims have the right to legal advice before trial and during trial, to the conclusion of the case. For example, a rape victim is entitled to see a lawyer to get legal advice for two hours before they report a rape allegation and they then receive legal representation to the conclusion of the case. Given all the evidence from rape victims about their experience of the justice system, we believe that there is a case for looking at how we can expand the legal support that is available to rape victims in particular, so we ask that the Scottish Government look at what more could be done.

Scottish Labour supports trauma-informed practices for victims and witnesses, but we recognise that that will mean fundamental changes in practice and culture.

The legal profession is threatening to boycott aspects of the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill that relate to single-judge rape trials. The cabinet secretary is correct to say that we need partnership and resolve. A great deal more work needs to be done to ensure that reforms can be implemented effectively.

We look forward to hearing contributions to the debate. As a party, we are open to discussing any ideas that will deliver for witnesses and victims.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-08865, in the name of Angela Constance, entitled “Transforming Justice in Scotland—Person-centred and Tra...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
It is a privilege to lead this debate, which is my first as Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. I want to pay tribute to my predecessor, Keith Br...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the cabinet secretary to her first debate as Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. On the point about when someone is released from pris...
Angela Constance SNP
The member raises an important point about the quality and frequency of engagement with victims throughout their justice journey. He may be aware that an ind...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Jamie Greene to speak to and move amendment S6M-08865.1. 15:29
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I know that you would have wanted to speak in today’s debate but are prohibited from doing so. I welcome the cabinet se...
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Greene Con
I would love to, if I had some extra time, but I am really short.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back.
Jamie Greene Con
In that case, I would be happy to hear Mr Swinney.
John Swinney SNP
I am interested in the development of the member’s argument, because he is in danger of arguing at cross purposes with himself, which I am surprised about, b...
Jamie Greene Con
Let me respond by quoting something to Mr Swinney: “Undermining the foundations of the Scottish justice system to increase conviction rates is a dangerous a...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to speak to the amendment in Pauline McNeill’s name. I thank everyone who has contributed t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Ms Clark. I have been informed that because you are not a signatory to the amendment, you need to indicate your support for the amendment before y...
Katy Clark Lab
I am happy to move the amendment in Pauline McNeill’s name.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Will you say that you support it?
Katy Clark Lab
I definitely support the amendment. I move, amendment S6M-08865.2, to insert at end: “; further notes recent reports of poor experiences of victims within ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
That is a new one for me, too. I call Beatrice Wishart, who joins us online. 15:45
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I thank the Deputy Presiding Officer for granting me permission to leave the debate early, and I apologise to members for having to do so. On behalf of Scot...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move on to the open debate. I inform colleagues that there is absolutely no time in hand, so I would be grateful if all members could stick to their alloc...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the cabinet secretary to her new role. Scotland’s justice system is on the verge of transformation, with changes that I believe will finally put v...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the cabinet secretary to her new role. I am honoured to be contributing on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives to today’s debate on transfo...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I am happy to speak to the Government motion and to support the vision of a just, safe and resilient Scotland that puts victims and witnesses at the heart of...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Although I welcome the debate and the publication of “Trauma Informed Justice: A Knowledge and Skills Framework for Working with Victims and Witnesses”, the ...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
First, I want to acknowledge the bravery of all victims and witnesses who have lived through trauma and experienced the criminal justice system. They deserve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Maggie Chapman, who is joining us remotely. 16:19
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I refer colleagues to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I begin by expressing my heartfelt thanks to all the people who are involved in suppor...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
In the past few years, the complex challenges of the justice system have been widely discussed in this Parliament. That system and our legal processes face c...
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I have listened to the member’s comments about some of the challenges in the Scottish justice system. Does she agree that those are not unique to Scotland? A...
Meghan Gallacher Con
The SNP has been in Government for 15 years, so we might think that it would have put victims at the heart of its programme for government by now. We are see...