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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 May 2023

09 May 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Trauma-informed Justice for Victims and Witnesses

Let me respond by quoting something to Mr Swinney:

“Undermining the foundations of the Scottish justice system to increase conviction rates is a dangerous approach which will create a serious risk of injustice.”

Those are not my words; they come from the president of the Law Society of Scotland, whom I know he holds in great esteem. We have also heard repeatedly from every bar association in the land and many eminent lords and ladies and other commentators that they are nervous and uneasy about the plans. It is not only the media or politicians that are fuelling this discussion—it is coming from the judiciary. The Government cannot ignore those views or warnings—in fact, it would do so at its peril.

I understand that the Government has a difficult task, but it cannot achieve reform if it does not take all the cogs of the justice system with it on that reform. If it does not, it will fail, and I would hate to be the person who says, “I told you so.”

Our amendment calls for another aspect of fairness, which I need to plug because I seek members’ support on it, which is that electronic monitoring, while someone is on bail, should not form part of any future sentence if they are found guilty. Someone on bail is untried, and for all intents and purposes they are not guilty, so any restriction that is imposed on them as a condition of bail is to keep them out of custody. It is an incentive not a punishment.

I end where I started. Warm words are welcome, but we have heard them all before—it is time to act.

I move amendment S6M-08865.1, to insert at end:

“, and believes that, through its scrutiny of the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill, fairness for victims will be further achieved by the removal of proposals to allow for time spent by offenders on bail, under electronic monitoring, to be considered as part of their overall sentence, and that additional measures, such as affording victims a greater voice in decisions concerning the bail, remand and release of offenders, better protections around their safety once an offender is released and any other practical measures that can better protect victims and their families, ought to be positively considered by the Parliament.”

15:38  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-08865, in the name of Angela Constance, entitled “Transforming Justice in Scotland—Person-centred and Tra...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
It is a privilege to lead this debate, which is my first as Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. I want to pay tribute to my predecessor, Keith Br...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the cabinet secretary to her first debate as Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. On the point about when someone is released from pris...
Angela Constance SNP
The member raises an important point about the quality and frequency of engagement with victims throughout their justice journey. He may be aware that an ind...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Jamie Greene to speak to and move amendment S6M-08865.1. 15:29
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I know that you would have wanted to speak in today’s debate but are prohibited from doing so. I welcome the cabinet se...
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Greene Con
I would love to, if I had some extra time, but I am really short.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back.
Jamie Greene Con
In that case, I would be happy to hear Mr Swinney.
John Swinney SNP
I am interested in the development of the member’s argument, because he is in danger of arguing at cross purposes with himself, which I am surprised about, b...
Jamie Greene Con
Let me respond by quoting something to Mr Swinney: “Undermining the foundations of the Scottish justice system to increase conviction rates is a dangerous a...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to speak to the amendment in Pauline McNeill’s name. I thank everyone who has contributed t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Ms Clark. I have been informed that because you are not a signatory to the amendment, you need to indicate your support for the amendment before y...
Katy Clark Lab
I am happy to move the amendment in Pauline McNeill’s name.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Will you say that you support it?
Katy Clark Lab
I definitely support the amendment. I move, amendment S6M-08865.2, to insert at end: “; further notes recent reports of poor experiences of victims within ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
That is a new one for me, too. I call Beatrice Wishart, who joins us online. 15:45
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I thank the Deputy Presiding Officer for granting me permission to leave the debate early, and I apologise to members for having to do so. On behalf of Scot...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move on to the open debate. I inform colleagues that there is absolutely no time in hand, so I would be grateful if all members could stick to their alloc...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the cabinet secretary to her new role. Scotland’s justice system is on the verge of transformation, with changes that I believe will finally put v...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the cabinet secretary to her new role. I am honoured to be contributing on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives to today’s debate on transfo...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I am happy to speak to the Government motion and to support the vision of a just, safe and resilient Scotland that puts victims and witnesses at the heart of...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Although I welcome the debate and the publication of “Trauma Informed Justice: A Knowledge and Skills Framework for Working with Victims and Witnesses”, the ...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
First, I want to acknowledge the bravery of all victims and witnesses who have lived through trauma and experienced the criminal justice system. They deserve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Maggie Chapman, who is joining us remotely. 16:19
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I refer colleagues to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I begin by expressing my heartfelt thanks to all the people who are involved in suppor...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
In the past few years, the complex challenges of the justice system have been widely discussed in this Parliament. That system and our legal processes face c...
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I have listened to the member’s comments about some of the challenges in the Scottish justice system. Does she agree that those are not unique to Scotland? A...
Meghan Gallacher Con
The SNP has been in Government for 15 years, so we might think that it would have put victims at the heart of its programme for government by now. We are see...