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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 03 May 2023

03 May 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Governing Party (Transparency)
Mason, John SNP Glasgow Shettleston Watch on SPTV

No—I am afraid that I have only four minutes.

With 74,000 members, the SNP is clearly well ahead of both those parties. As a percentage of the relevant electorate, SNP membership is about 1.7 per cent, Labour is at 0.9 per cent and the Conservatives are at 0.4 per cent. It is pretty clear which party has the most members, is the most popular with the public and wins the most elections.

Transparency about budgets is a serious point: I am not quite clear what practical differences the Conservatives want. For example, both the SNP and the Greens have been open and clear that, if we want better public services, we need to consider raising taxes. By contrast, the Conservatives have called for lower taxes but simultaneously asked for extra spending on a range of areas. That is neither honest nor transparent—in fact, it is impossible. The Tories might set an example in transparency by saying where they would cut public services to match tax cuts.

When it comes to transparency in political parties, we could do no worse than look at the House of Lords. As members know, the SNP does not take seats there because the lords are unelected, which is an affront to democracy. Britain cannot be considered a true democracy as long as one half of its Parliament is appointed and not elected.

How do those people get appointed? Some may be there on merit but, for others, it seems that they just pay money to the Conservative Party. I understand that about £3 million is the going rate. We are told that 15 of the past 16 Conservative Party treasurers have been offered a seat in the House of Lords, having each donated more than £3 million to the party.

It is not only party treasurers; it has been reported that, since 2010, 22 of the Tories’ main financial backers have been given peerages, having donated at least £54 million to the party. Other nominations have been blocked by the House of Lords Appointments Commission; it tried to block Peter Cruddas in 2020, but Boris Johnson overruled it and Peter Cruddas got his peerage.

OpenDemocracy and Brunel University London have said that the chances of

“so many ... Tory donors ... ending up in the ... Lords is equivalent to entering the National Lottery 12 times in a row—and winning the jackpot every time.”

To be clear, it is illegal to sell titles for money, but that rule has been enforced only once—in 1933.

I mention in passing that Labour seeks the right of recall for MSPs. We should not forget that, although Labour’s Mike Watson had to resign after he got a 16-month sentence for trying to set fire to a hotel, he still sits as a Labour member in the House of Lords. Maybe Labour should clean up its own act first.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-08764, in the name of Douglas Ross, on the transparency of Scotland’s governing party. I invite those mem...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I hope that, with the early start, we have a bit more flexibility in some of the timings this afternoon, because I am keen that this is a proper debate and t...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The member says that he is genuine—could he expand on that by telling us the membership of the Conservative Party in Scotland? Is it 6,500, which is the numb...
Douglas Ross Con
That is the most predictable intervention of the afternoon, which will probably be repeated by several others—I thought that such a question might have come ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Ross, please resume your seat. At this stage in the debate, it might be instructive if I remind members that there are certain expectations about language...
Douglas Ross Con
We clarified that through the Presiding Officer’s office this morning. I am not saying that any individual member in the Parliament lied; I am saying that, c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call George Adam, to speak to and move amendment S6M— 14:51
The Minister for Cabinet and Parliamentary Business (George Adam) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Minister, I have to read out my bit first. I call George Adam, to speak to and move amendment S6M-08764.2.
George Adam SNP
I was just so keen to get involved in this debate, Presiding Officer. That was definitely a thing from Douglas Ross—I am not sure what it was and I am not s...
Douglas Ross Con
Will the member take an intervention?
George Adam SNP
No, we have heard enough from Mr Ross. The absolute hypocrisy from the Conservatives is almost laughable. We have to admire someone who has the brass neck t...
Douglas Ross Con
Ah! Tell us about them!
George Adam SNP
Mr Ross is having a lot of fun and games over there in the corner, shouting from the sidelines. It must be from his time as a referee.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We cannot have two members standing at the same time. Mr Ross, by not taking your intervention requests, the minister indicated that he is probably not plann...
George Adam SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I have said that we are dealing with that. Within days of his election as leader, the First Minister announced an urgent revie...
Douglas Ross Con
Will the minister give way on that point?
George Adam SNP
We are not hearing what the Conservatives’ membership numbers are; of the five parties that are represented in the chamber, only two—the SNP and the Scottish...
Douglas Ross Con
Will the minister give way on that point?
George Adam SNP
I am quite happy if Douglas Ross wants to say the membership number now.
Douglas Ross Con
I am grateful that the minister has finally taken an intervention. Will he accept that his party lied about its figures, and that led to the resignation in t...
George Adam SNP
My goodness—I gave Douglas Ross the opportunity to build himself up into a frenzy, and that was a bit of a damp squib from him. That comes from the party of ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
With the recent revelations about its finances, the culture of secrecy, spin and cover-up at the heart of the SNP has been laid bare for all to see. I find i...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
It has been a painful few weeks for the SNP—a party that has seemed impregnable for the past 16 years is now shambling, anarchic and quarrelling. I almost—al...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches will be of four minutes’ length. 15:07
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It was only last Wednesday when the Parliament debated transparency, and we—all of us in that debate, including SNP members—agreed in principle that the Parl...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
There is certainly a lot in the motion and the amendments, so I will not try to cover everything in four minutes. First, on the SNP accounts, I understand t...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
John Mason SNP
No—I am afraid that I have only four minutes. With 74,000 members, the SNP is clearly well ahead of both those parties. As a percentage of the relevant elec...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You need to conclude, Mr Mason.