Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 03 May 2023
03 May 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Governing Party (Transparency)
Mr Ross, please resume your seat. At this stage in the debate, it might be instructive if I remind members that there are certain expectations about language in the chamber. We know that the chair will not tolerate an accusation that, for example, a fellow member has been deliberately untruthful. I remind members of a statement that was made by the previous Presiding Officer, the late Sir Alex Ferguson, who reminded members that the words
“‘lies’, ‘lying’ or ‘liar’ should not be used in the chamber in relation to other members—and preferably not at all.” —[Official Report, 7 May 2009, c 17290.]
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-08764, in the name of Douglas Ross, on the transparency of Scotland’s governing party. I invite those mem...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I hope that, with the early start, we have a bit more flexibility in some of the timings this afternoon, because I am keen that this is a proper debate and t...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
The member says that he is genuine—could he expand on that by telling us the membership of the Conservative Party in Scotland? Is it 6,500, which is the numb...
Douglas Ross
Con
That is the most predictable intervention of the afternoon, which will probably be repeated by several others—I thought that such a question might have come ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Mr Ross, please resume your seat. At this stage in the debate, it might be instructive if I remind members that there are certain expectations about language...
Douglas Ross
Con
We clarified that through the Presiding Officer’s office this morning. I am not saying that any individual member in the Parliament lied; I am saying that, c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I call George Adam, to speak to and move amendment S6M— 14:51
The Minister for Cabinet and Parliamentary Business (George Adam)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Minister, I have to read out my bit first. I call George Adam, to speak to and move amendment S6M-08764.2.
George Adam
SNP
I was just so keen to get involved in this debate, Presiding Officer. That was definitely a thing from Douglas Ross—I am not sure what it was and I am not s...
Douglas Ross
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
George Adam
SNP
No, we have heard enough from Mr Ross. The absolute hypocrisy from the Conservatives is almost laughable. We have to admire someone who has the brass neck t...
Douglas Ross
Con
Ah! Tell us about them!
George Adam
SNP
Mr Ross is having a lot of fun and games over there in the corner, shouting from the sidelines. It must be from his time as a referee.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We cannot have two members standing at the same time. Mr Ross, by not taking your intervention requests, the minister indicated that he is probably not plann...
George Adam
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I have said that we are dealing with that. Within days of his election as leader, the First Minister announced an urgent revie...
Douglas Ross
Con
Will the minister give way on that point?
George Adam
SNP
We are not hearing what the Conservatives’ membership numbers are; of the five parties that are represented in the chamber, only two—the SNP and the Scottish...
Douglas Ross
Con
Will the minister give way on that point?
George Adam
SNP
I am quite happy if Douglas Ross wants to say the membership number now.
Douglas Ross
Con
I am grateful that the minister has finally taken an intervention. Will he accept that his party lied about its figures, and that led to the resignation in t...
George Adam
SNP
My goodness—I gave Douglas Ross the opportunity to build himself up into a frenzy, and that was a bit of a damp squib from him. That comes from the party of ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
With the recent revelations about its finances, the culture of secrecy, spin and cover-up at the heart of the SNP has been laid bare for all to see. I find i...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
It has been a painful few weeks for the SNP—a party that has seemed impregnable for the past 16 years is now shambling, anarchic and quarrelling. I almost—al...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches will be of four minutes’ length. 15:07
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
It was only last Wednesday when the Parliament debated transparency, and we—all of us in that debate, including SNP members—agreed in principle that the Parl...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
There is certainly a lot in the motion and the amendments, so I will not try to cover everything in four minutes. First, on the SNP accounts, I understand t...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
John Mason
SNP
No—I am afraid that I have only four minutes. With 74,000 members, the SNP is clearly well ahead of both those parties. As a percentage of the relevant elec...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
You need to conclude, Mr Mason.