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Committee

Criminal Justice Committee 22 February 2023

22 Feb 2023 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee
Item of business
Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons
Teresa Medhurst (Scottish Prison Service) Watch on SPTV
Good morning, convener and committee members. Excuse me—I have a bit of a cold, so I will try to work through that as we go through the session. Thank you for inviting me this morning. I hope that the session will allow me the opportunity to provide you all with greater clarity and understanding about how the Scottish Prison Service manages all people in our care. Although I know that the focus today is on the management of transgender individuals, my priority remains the health, safety and wellbeing of everyone who visits, lives in and works in our prisons, some of whom—Temporary loss of sound.—as well as the most marginalised and vulnerable in our society. The SPS has a proven track record of managing complex people. Society in general is subject to constant change and, in time, those changes impact on our own prison communities and affect how we manage those in our care. That requires us to evolve and adapt our operations to meet new challenges and changing dynamics. Every person sent to us by the courts comes to us with their own history and life circumstances that define them as individuals. That is why an individualised, person-centred approach is fundamental to our role as custodians and our position within the wider justice sector as a modern prison service. Daily, prison officers have to manage a range of often conflicting demands and risks presented to them by the individuals we care for, who can range from someone who belongs to a known serious and organised crime group to a first-time offender about whom we have little or no knowledge. Decisions on the management and placement of individuals, including transgender individuals, are made on an individual basis, informed by a multidisciplinary assessment of both risk and need. Such decisions seek to protect the wellbeing and rights of the individual, as well as those of the people around them, including staff, in order to achieve an outcome that balances risks and promotes the safety of all people who live and work in prisons. As part of our approach to operational risk assessment, proportionate management controls, such as removing an individual from contact with the wider population or additional security measures, will be introduced where new information suggests that that is necessary. Such decisions are not taken lightly. When such measures are required, the key consideration is always safety rather than punishment. That balanced approach helps to manage a perceived risk or threat, while continuing to support the wellbeing of the individual, with the aim of integrating the person into an appropriate mainstream location as soon as practicable. The population dynamic, which is constantly shifting and changing can be affected by both internal and external factors. That requires a responsiveness using well-established and practised operating systems in managing intelligence, profiling risks, making tactical interventions and applying an individualised case management approach through managing our policies and practice. The foundation of that approach is the relationships that exist and are developed between our staff and those in our care. Those relationships are key to creating a solid foundation for delivering effective services. Staff support people through difficult times, guiding them through their journey in custody and preparing them for an eventual return to society. I have more than 30 years’ operational experience working in prisons. They are unique environments and unlike other parts of the public sector. I have been the governor in charge of both male and female estates and have managed both trans women and trans men in custody. I also led the development of our transformative women’s strategy in response to the Dame Elish Angiolini report in 2012, which is delivering a step change in how we manage women in our care. Our trauma-informed and innovative strategy is supporting women to regain their independence and to learn skills that will support the best possible chance of a successful return to their communities. The SPS remains committed to providing person-centred care to our entire population, including managing identified risks that are not exclusive to transgender people in custody. That is supported by our staff, who continue to demonstrate long-standing expertise and a strong track record in the management and care of an increasingly complex prison population. Finally, I reiterate the point that I made at the start of my statement: my priority remains the health, safety and wellbeing of our staff and everyone in our care.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Audrey Nicoll) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the sixth meeting in 2023 of the Criminal Justice Committee. There are no apologies this morning. Our first item of business is ...
Teresa Medhurst (Scottish Prison Service)
Good morning, convener and committee members. Excuse me—I have a bit of a cold, so I will try to work through that as we go through the session. Thank you f...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans (Keith Brown) SNP
Thank you for the opportunity to be here today to answer questions regarding the management of transgender prisoners and the recommendations of the urgent ca...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much. We will now move to questions. I intend to allow 45 minutes for members to ask questions.
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo what the cabinet secretary said: we are not suggesting that trans women inherently pose some kind of threat. The issue has always been about predatory...
Keith Brown
I am not here to discuss other people’s views. I am here as the Cabinet Secretary for Justice to answer questions about the Prison Service’s policy. I would ...
Russell Findlay Con
But if this goes to the heart of—
Keith Brown SNP
Let me finish my point. You have asked a question.
Russell Findlay Con
We have very little time.
Keith Brown SNP
If you have other questions, you can ask them after I have finished my answer, please.
Russell Findlay Con
Okay. Given the amount of time that we have, I do not want to—
The Convener SNP
We are here to discuss the specifics of the lessons learned review. I would be grateful if you could refine your questions to focus on the review.
Russell Findlay Con
Okay. The reason why I think that my question is relevant is that it goes to the heart of where we are now. The Prison Service is conducting a review. If sen...
Keith Brown SNP
I was trying to answer, but you would not allow me to answer. That was the point that I was trying to make. Can I try to answer now?
Russell Findlay Con
Okay. Who is right in terms of definition?
The Convener SNP
You are asking the same question. I ask you to ask another question.
Keith Brown SNP
Convener, I am happy to answer the question, but I would like to try to get through my answer before being interrupted, if possible. As justice secretary, m...
Russell Findlay Con
When did you find out that this particular prisoner had been sent to a women’s prison?
Keith Brown SNP
I found out when it became evident from the media. I am not normally uniformly told of every prisoner who is sent to prison.
Russell Findlay Con
Even though this was quite a high-profile and on-going High Court case, and people were aware of the issue, nobody had informed you.
Keith Brown SNP
I have just answered that question.
Russell Findlay Con
Once the transfer became known about, you initially defended the decision. The following day, the First Minister announced that the prisoner was being remove...
Keith Brown SNP
At the time, I said to the Parliament that I had faith in the basis on which the Scottish Prison Service deals with prisoners who are transgender. It has an ...
Russell Findlay Con
On 31 January, you told the Parliament that “The SPS was, of course, aware of ministers’ views—it would be, frankly, bizarre if the SPS had not been aware o...
Keith Brown SNP
As you have mentioned, there was a substantial degree of publicity around that. Obviously, ministers have discussions with officials and the agencies for whi...
Russell Findlay Con
How were the Government’s views made known to the Prison Service?
Keith Brown
I have just explained that, convener.
The Convener SNP
Perhaps I can—
Russell Findlay Con
I am not entirely sure that we know how the Government communicated to the Prison Service its dissatisfaction with that prisoner being in the female estate. ...
Teresa Medhurst
During a conversation with officials, I was asked about where we were in the case management of that individual, because the case management process applies ...