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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 February 2023

09 Feb 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Income Tax Rate Resolution 2023-24
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

In fairness, that is a matter for the Minister for Public Finance, from whom we will hear later.

I am pleased to see the proposals being made. We are now seeing the powers that were granted by the Scotland Act 2016 being used. We have some £19 billion being raised directly by the powers that the Scottish Government exercises, which represents some 35 per cent of all available revenues and 44 per cent of revenue funding. It is important that we see that bit of the budget—the part that is within the Scottish Government’s control—being used and exercised. The other day, the cabinet secretary described that as being in the foothills of variation of tax policy. I am pleased to see that; it is what devolution is about.

I also note that the measures are progressive. Tax is a part of the social compact whereby those who benefit from public services are asked to contribute, and those who have the ability to pay more do so.

Scottish Labour will support the rate resolution this evening. I note the proposal on the top rate of tax, which we called for back in 2019. In reflecting—but not necessarily completely mirroring—the comments of Willie Rennie and Liz Smith, I say that we need to consider the effectiveness of such powers. The relevant behavioural impacts need to be studied. I suspect that they might be overstated, but we need to examine in detail whether such impacts detract from the mechanical increases that would have been predicted.

Likewise, we need to consider the effects of fiscal drag, which are of concern to the Finance and Public Administration Committee. Those include the interactions between the Scottish bands and rates and other aspects of taxation—in particular, national insurance.

We now have anomalies in our tax regime, which we must examine. We need to consider the fact that the inflection point—the point at which a person in Scotland starts to pay more tax than someone who lives elsewhere in the UK would—is some £28,000. That will take in people who are in promoted posts in the teaching profession and nurses. We need to examine all those issues in the round and be led by the evidence to ensure that we have a progressive taxation system that is also effective. It is important that we assess that.

I believe that although our system should be progressive, raising taxes is not a benefit in and of itself. Although I absolutely support the right of the Scottish Government to have a taxation policy that is different from that of the UK Government—that is important—if we are to have a sustained higher level of taxation we must continue to test and challenge in order to ensure that we get commensurate benefit.

Finally, the clear point of fact with the fiscal framework is that it operates on the basis of average tax receipts per person in Scotland, their growth being higher than those in the rest of the UK. If that approach is to be sustained, we will have greater tax receipts and more money to spend in Scotland. Therefore I say to the Scottish Government that we need increased focus on growing jobs and wages, because ultimately that will be good not only for the exchequer in Scotland, but for Scottish people.

Scottish Labour will support the rate resolution. I seek to debate such topics further in the months and years to come as we explore tax devolution and variation in Scotland.

16:48  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-07853, in the name of Tom Arthur, on the Scottish rate resolution. Members should note that I will put th...
The Minister for Public Finance, Planning and Community Wealth (Tom Arthur) SNP
I will draw the Parliament’s attention to the procedural connection between this debate and rule 9.16.7 of the standing orders, which states that a Scottish ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
We will cautiously support the resolution. As it is an emergency, we understand the need to protect public finances. However, if public finances improve, the...
Tom Arthur SNP
I thank Mr Rennie for his support for the resolution, for his instructive engagement and for his enthusiasm, because he wants to start talking now about the ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The minister is quite correct that there is a convention in this Parliament—rule 9.16.7 of standing orders says that a rates resolution must be passed before...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Covid Recovery (John Swinney) SNP
I am interested in the line of argument that Liz Smith is developing because, essentially, she goes into territory where the tax system can be utilised to cr...
Liz Smith Con
Yes, I accept that and I think that tax incentives are critical. We have had considerable differences of opinion about the behavioural aspects of different t...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I think that it was deeply unfair of the cabinet secretary to make the Minister for Public Finance chuckle as he got to his feet. Tax is a very serious busin...
John Swinney SNP
I am happy to confirm that I was not in any way deliberately trying to make the minister chuckle. I was simply somewhat discomfited by the fact that I was ha...
Daniel Johnson Lab
In fairness, that is a matter for the Minister for Public Finance, from whom we will hear later. I am pleased to see the proposals being made. We are now se...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I will briefly pick up on an issue that has dogged our debates on taxation in recent years. It has not come up this afternoon, but it did during last week’s ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Scottish Liberal Democrats have considered the vote on the rate resolution separately to the vote that will come on the budget after recess. In the debate th...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Could you please conclude, Mr Cole-Hamilton?
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
—we can see the necessity of fixing it. I would like an answer from the cabinet secretary, in his closing remarks, to the question: will those tax increases ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Tom Arthur to wind up. You have up to four minutes, minister. 16:57
Tom Arthur SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am conscious that I stand between members and recess, so I will keep my remarks as brief as possible. I begin by thanking fo...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Minister, if you could just give me one moment. I would be grateful if members who are just coming into the chamber could do so quietly and if conversations ...
Tom Arthur SNP
I will build on the response that I gave to Willie Rennie’s intervention, in direct response to Alex Cole-Hamilton’s question. He asks what our future policy...
Willie Rennie LD
I completely understand that point—the world is unpredictable. However, I hope that the minister understands our point about the balance. We need to have pro...
Tom Arthur SNP
I do, entirely, and that speaks to the importance of the independent and robust assessment and forecast provided by the Scottish Fiscal Commission, of the Go...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That concludes the debate on the Scottish rate resolution. Rule 11.3.1 requires the question on the Scottish rate resolution to be put immediately after the...
The Presiding Officer NPA
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:02 Meeting suspended. 17:04 On resuming—
The Presiding Officer NPA
The question is, that motion S6M-07853, in the name of Tom Arthur, on the Scottish rate resolution, be agreed to. Members should cast their votes now. The...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app did not connect. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA
We will ensure that that is recorded.
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I have a slow connection, and I am not sure whether my vote has been recorded.
The Presiding Officer NPA
I confirm that it has been recorded. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wish...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The result of the division is: For 90, Against 2, Abstentions 28. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that, for the purposes of section 11A of the...