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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 22 December 2022

22 Dec 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Maternity Services in Moray

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I begin, as you and many others have done, by wishing everybody all the very best for the festive season—a very merry Christmas indeed—and all the best for 2023. I have a secret list of who I think will be getting a lump of coal for Christmas, but it would be uncharitable of me to even suggest who might be on such a list.

As is customary, I begin by thanking Douglas Ross for securing this important members’ business debate. I am pleased that, notwithstanding the exceptionally long couple of nights that we had as we engaged with the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, we were still able to make time in the Business Bulletin for this debate, which is important not just to members in the chamber but to many people across Moray and, as Finlay Carson has demonstrated, across Scotland.

I am pleased to acknowledge, too, that an exceptional cross-party campaign exists on this matter. I have met a number of elected members—Douglas Ross, Richard Lochhead, Rhoda Grant and many others across the political spectrum—in relation to that excellent campaign.

I restate the Government’s cast-iron commitment—as Karen Adam asked me to do—to returning consultant-led maternity services to Dr Gray’s hospital. I will not go through the background, because people are aware of it now that they have heard it from other members; instead, I will try to address some of the points that have been raised.

Many colleagues have made the point—Edward Mountain made it most forcefully in his contribution—that it is so important that we listen to clinicians, whether in Raigmore or at Dr Gray’s. That clinical expertise is exceptionally important. I do not want anybody to leave the chamber thinking that I do not listen to and put a lot of stock in the opinion and expertise of clinicians. The concerns that clinicians had raised were playing heavily on my mind when I last talked about Dr Gray’s in the chamber, which is why I was not in a position to approve the model 4 plans then.

Douglas Ross and other members have posed a question to me a question about model 4, and they have raised concerns along with keep MUM, the maternity voices partnership and others. I think that model 4 has probably become a distraction. We are trying to describe an improvement journey, with all the elements that are required for an integrated model. When I asked Douglas Ross whether he believed in cross-boundary working, his answer was, “Absolutely”, which is right. If we are going to have a sustainable model, with all the recruitment challenges that we have in not just the north-east of Scotland but many areas of remote, rural and island Scotland, cross-boundary working will be exceptionally important.

However, it is fair to say that there are clinical, community and elected representative concerns around model 4, and that model 6, which is the plan that we have in front of us, will not go fast enough for many people. Many months ago, people were saying in the chamber that model 6 might take seven or 10 years, which is what they had heard from others, but I should say that it is far more ambitious than that.

Having taken all those things into account, I have decided that we will not continue with model 4 as previously outlined. However, as I have already said, I expect NHS Highland and NHS Grampian to continue to work together to ensure sustainable maternity services for women in the north of Scotland.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-07192, in the name of Douglas Ross, on maternity services at Dr Gray’s hospital....
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. Best wishes for the festive period to you and all the staff of the Parliament. I will give a brief bit of background to the si...
Richard Lochhead (Moray) (SNP) SNP
I agree with Douglas Ross that the cross-party spirit around this issue is important. I share his concern that it has taken far too long to get to where we a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Douglas Ross, I can give you that time back.
Douglas Ross Con
I am grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer. I agree wholeheartedly with what Richard Lochhead said. That laser focus must come from the health board, it must c...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I will come to the issue of model 4 and model 6 in my contribution, but does the member agree that, even if there was no model 4, for the sustainability of s...
Douglas Ross Con
Of course I agree with that. My constituents who live in Brodie are far closer to Raigmore hospital than my constituents who live in Cullen, who are closer t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Ross. In the spirit of the week and the season, I am happy to gift a little extra time. 17:26
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
When Douglas Ross said that he was hoping to see “more and more”, I thought that he was going to say more of his children born there, which would have been a...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I say at the outset that Douglas Ross’s words are wise words that come from the heart, not only that of his constituents but his own, because he has been thr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Through the chair, please, Mr Mountain.
Edward Mountain Con
I am just finishing up, Presiding Officer. If you push on with model 4, mums who are coming down from Caithness will not be able to get in, because the beds...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I congratulate Douglas Ross on securing the debate, and I congratulate Keep MUM and the other campaigners who ensure that the issue is not forgotten. Like Ed...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
I pass on my good wishes for the festive season, and I recognise the Presiding Officer’s generosity at this festive time in regard to my contribution. I who...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Carson. You might have tested to destruction the definition of relevance, but at least you did not dress it up as a point of order. Thank goodn...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Members will be pleased that some of the points that I had intended to make have already been made, so I will be quite brief. I thank Douglas Ross for bringi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I invite Humza Yousaf to respond to the debate. 17:49
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Humza Yousaf) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I begin, as you and many others have done, by wishing everybody all the very best for the festive season—a very merry Christmas...
Douglas Ross Con
That is a very welcome announcement, which I asked for in the motion and campaigners have been asking for. The cabinet secretary has said that he will not c...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I suspect that I will not be able to do the matter the justice that it deserves in the time that we have. I am happy, as always, to pick it up with Douglas R...
The Minister for Just Transition, Employment and Fair Work (Richard Lochhead) SNP
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s announcement, which is something that I called for when I conveyed the views of keep MUM at a meeting a few weeks ago. Wit...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I can give assurances about that. Before I do so, I say that Richard Lochhead has perfectly articulated the integrated model that we are talking about. Let ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I am being generous, cabinet secretary.
Humza Yousaf SNP
Good. I will try not to keep people back.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You may continue for the time being.
Humza Yousaf SNP
How much time do I have?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you another couple of minutes.
Humza Yousaf SNP
That would be great, Presiding Officer. It is much appreciated. I want to touch on a number of issues that have been raised directly with me. It may be bett...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I congratulate everybody on persevering and making it through to the end of what has been a long week and a busy term. I add my...