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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 30 November 2022

30 Nov 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Violence Against Women and Girls (Men’s Role in Eradication)
Dornan, James SNP Glasgow Cathcart Watch on SPTV

Presiding Officer, in four months, I will be 70. I tell you that simply to explain the context in which I see this debate. I have lived through the times when hitting your wife was “just one of those things—nobody’s business but theirs”. That was not in my house, to be fair. My dad was a gentle teetotaller, but it was all around us—“She walked intae a cupboard,” et cetera. Women had their roles, knew their place and knew not to question it.

The situation improved some in the 1960s, when more opportunities came about for women. However, equality was not near to being a thing and it was certainly not on the ground.

In the 1980s and 1990s, I managed football teams. On Saturdays, we would stay for a drink and occasionally join the younger guys who were heading out for more drink later on. I am no prude, but I remember being shocked at how, for many of those young guys, girls were solely there for entertainment. The guys verbally abused them if they got a knockback, and literally almost forced themselves on them. I remember wondering whether that was what we were like when we were young. I truly hoped not then, and now I pray that that was never the case.

Turning to now, thankfully all that is behind us. Women feel free to dress as they wish, go where they wish and go with who they wish—I wish.

Things that you hoped to see consigned to the past are more prevalent now. The use and abuse of social media—[Inaudible.]—being peer pressured into acts, insecure young women being dazzled by new surroundings and new types of young men who they socialise with for the first time. We have to remember that monsters too often come with friendly faces.

One of the greatest con tricks of the male of the species has been persuading the female of the species that “it’s all your own fault”—but you know what? It is not. It is my fault. It is the fault of every guy who allows their mates to make fun of women. It is the fault of our media, which are designed by men for men, and which far too often see women strictly as a decoration or plaything. It is the fault of every father who did not explain to their sons that the young girls who they mock will one day hold the same place in the heart of other young men that their mum does for them. It is the fault of every man who believes that women really were put on this earth simply as decoration or their companion and plaything.

I support the motion. Violence against women and girls is utterly abhorrent, and the impact on those who are affected is devastating and destructive across our society. I have seen its impact through the work of the heroes in the Daisy Project and Waves (Women Against Violent Environments), which is a peer support group in Castlemilk. That is a wonderful group of women who have had to persevere through horrors that I cannot imagine and who have then found the strength to protect others.

I welcome initiatives such as the “Don’t be that guy” campaign, which has been mentioned and which Police Scotland launched last year. I echo the comments of Deputy Chief Constable Malcolm Graham when he said:

“It’s time that we men reflected on our own behaviours and attitudes—and those of our friends, family and colleagues—towards women”.

Women are not responsible for the sexual offences that are committed against them. Although I welcome that initiative and other similar ones, I am keen to know what steps the minister has taken to evaluate the impact.

The Scottish Government’s universal periodic review on respecting, protecting and fulfilling the human rights of everyone in Scotland, which was published this October, highlights the positive work of the Government’s equally safe strategy. That strategy has helped tens of thousands of people and will provide invaluable support for more than 100 projects in the period 2021 to 2023.

Talking of that strategy brings me to the one individual case that, as well as breaking my heart, made me see more clearly than at any other time the damage that we men are capable of inflicting through our selfish actions. We all know of the case of Emily Drouet—I will not go over it again—and the incredible courage and determination that her mother, Fiona, has shown to try to ensure that no other young woman is ever bereft of a safe place to go when she is scared, lost or unsure. For that wonderful family to create something that is so durable and important from the tragedy of the loss of their beautiful Emily is an eternal monument to their strength and courage.

This is a good time to give the Scottish Government a well-deserved pat on the back because, ever since I introduced Fiona Drouet to Shirley-Anne Somerville, who was the appropriate minister at the time, the commitment to make something good happen has never wavered. In the current minister, Christina McKelvie, we have another passionate fighter for the cause of women and those who need our support, and I am so pleased to see her leading the debate today.

A lot of positive work is being done, although much of it is focused on being reactive rather than proactive, and rightly so. However, if we are to eradicate violence against women and children, it is important not only to recognise the role that men play but to develop and implement policy that changes perceptions and promotes the wider cultural shift that the motion speaks to. Education is central to that.

Some of equally safe’s work is focused on prevention and awareness raising through targeted sessions in schools, youth groups, universities and colleges. That is encouraging. However, a report on equally safe has highlighted a reluctance to allow visits into schools to deliver awareness-raising sessions. That is extremely worrying.

We need to develop policy that mainstreams such initiatives so that they are sewn into the fabric of our learning from an early age. The Government has an opportunity to make that happen because, as the minister will be aware, a new equally safe delivery plan is set to be drafted in the new year. I hope that the Government takes the opportunity to take on board those comments and explores how we can mainstream tackling the issue in our education system from an early age so that, hopefully, we prevent it from becoming an issue in the first place.

A lot of good work is going on, and it is making a difference and will continue to do so. However, it is now time for the only people who can truly change things for the better to stand up. We men must accept that, for far too long, we have been the problem; now it is time for us to become a major part of the solution.

16:24  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-07002, in the name of Christina McKelvie, on recognising the vital role that men must play in challenging...
The Minister for Equalities and Older People (Christina McKelvie) SNP
It is, of course, right that this Parliament collectively recognises the global campaign—the 16 days of activism against gender-based violence—that highlight...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Minister, you have talked about the risks, the momentum and the funding that is required, and I whole-heartedly support you in that regard. However, there is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members that they need to speak through the chair.
Christina McKelvie SNP
Mr Stewart has pre-empted the next part of my speech, so I thank him for that intervention. Earlier this month, I met members of the equally safe joint stra...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The minister talked about ethnic minorities and BAME communities. What work is the Scottish Government doing to reach out to the men of those communities? We...
Christina McKelvie SNP
That is exactly what the debate is about. Across the equally safe joint strategic board, we have been doing that work and talking to all our diverse communit...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank the minister for bringing such an important debate to the chamber, and I am honoured to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. This...
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Will Pam Gosal take an intervention?
Pam Gosal Con
Yes.
Karen Adam SNP
Predatory men do exist. They do not need to dress as a woman or to sign a statutory declaration for a gender recognition certificate in order to attack women...
Pam Gosal Con
The member is absolutely right, but there has to be a balance. I have said that in all the committees that I have made representations to. The balance must b...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour in the 16 days of activism against gender-based violence. We welcome that the subject of the deb...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my front bencher for giving way. Do you agree with me that, because of that prevalence in our education system, some responsibility needs to be take...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members to speak through the chair.
Pauline McNeill Lab
I recognise the issue, and I agree that we should investigate it in a deeper way and think about how we can restrict such activity. In the social media age,...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
Violence against women and girls is underpinned by a culture of sexism and misogyny. Sexism and sexual harassment are normalised in our society. Daily occurr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:38
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I have been speaking in debates on the 16 days of activism against gender-based violence since 2016—that is six years of highlighting with other members the ...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am privileged to be able to contribute to this important debate, and I thank the Scottish Government for lodging it. According to Engender, the root cause ...
Karen Adam SNP
Presiding Officer, I am concerned that we are conflating the gender recognition bill with men’s responsibility for gender-based violence. We should not be st...
Brian Whittle Con
I absolutely agree with the member on that point, but the trouble is that, as the UN special rapporteur Reem Alsalem said, the proposals “do not sufficientl...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
I thank the Minister for Equalities and Older People, Christina McKelvie, who has brought the issue of pervasive violence against women and girls to the atte...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to follow Bill Kidd’s speech, in which he talked of the evils of commercial sexual exploitation. I start by referring to the members’ busin...
Kaukab Stewart (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
The rallying cry of Iran’s protest movement, “women, life, freedom”, is simple, yet powerful. Ignited by the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini in September...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
This debate is specifically about the role of men in challenging and eradicating violence against women and girls. I am sorry that some have chosen to weapon...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
James Dornan joins us remotely. 16:17
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, in four months, I will be 70. I tell you that simply to explain the context in which I see this debate. I have lived through the times whe...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
The Government motion is very worthy, and I agree with every word of it. On Monday, I visited Border Women’s Aid, which I commend for supporting hundreds of ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans (Keith Brown) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?