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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 November 2022

02 Nov 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Care Service
Hoy, Craig Con South Scotland Watch on SPTV

The Conservative Party might not have given birth to the NHS, but Conservative Government after Conservative Government has nurtured it through good times and bad. That is why, today, in our motion, the Scottish Conservatives call on the SNP to scrap these wasteful plans and put every penny back into front-line social care.

We want to see a local care service that empowers communities. We want a change in culture and a change in delivery at the local level, with a service that is underpinned by a simple commitment to ensure that people access care in their local area, close to their family and close to their support networks. Centralisation poses risks not only to those who work in the care system, but to those who need care and the families that need to be around them.

The national care service poses a very real risk of an increase in cruel, out-of-area care that splits families from loved ones. The SNP falls back on one justification alone—that the reforms will create consistency—despite having no real plan to achieve it.

The only thing that is consistent about a national care service is the opposition to it. There is opposition from councillors, NHS boards, the unions and the workforce, charities, royal colleges and the independent and third sector. There is now opposition from normally supine SNP back benchers. However, there is a way out—the iceberg can be avoided. The SNP can urgently U-turn on a national care service and back our commonsense, local care-driven approach. Unless it does so, once again, overstretched care workers, vulnerable patients and their families will suffer.

I urge colleagues across the Scottish Parliament to support quality local care and to back our motion tonight.

I move,

That the Parliament notes the significant cross-party and cross-sectoral concern about the monumental risks involved in the creation of a National Care Service; warns that the financial memorandum to the Bill estimates that the creation of the service could cost up to £1.3 billion over five years and questions the accuracy of the Scottish Government’s estimates currently before the Parliament; raises concern about the rationale for creating a National Care Service through major structural reform at a time when social care is in crisis; acknowledges the considerable concerns from local government, trades unions and other industry stakeholders about the potential negative impacts of centralisation; believes that better value for money and better patient care will be achieved by directing investment into frontline provision and staffing rather than reorganisation, and calls for the creation of a Local Care Service focussed on better local delivery, underpinned by a local care guarantee.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-06523, in the name of Craig Hoy, on national care service viability. I ask members who wish to participat...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
This Scottish National Party Government is setting out on the most radical reform of Scottish public services in the history of devolution, but ministers can...
Emma Roddick (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
The member mentioned the NHS, and I note that his party voted against the creation of the NHS 22 times. Does he not recognise that people with lived experien...
Craig Hoy Con
The Conservative Party might not have given birth to the NHS, but Conservative Government after Conservative Government has nurtured it through good times an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I remind members that we are extremely tight for time and that they will need to accommodate any interventions in their time allocation. 15:21
The Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care (Kevin Stewart) SNP
The bill sets out our clear principles for the future of a national care service, and it is against those principles that the bill should be scrutinised, the...
Kevin Stewart SNP
I do not really have time, but I will take Ms Smith’s intervention.
Liz Smith Con
I will be quick. The minister has spelled out laudable aims, but why are so many stakeholders opposed to the bill?
Kevin Stewart SNP
There are stakeholders who are not content with all aspects of it, but I point out to members that it is about people, and, in the consultation, people backe...
Kevin Stewart SNP
The Scottish Government has been leading the way in the United Kingdom to improve pay and terms and conditions. I am shortly due to chair an event with COSLA...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the minister take an intervention on that point?
Kevin Stewart SNP
The Government has already committed itself to increasing spending in social care by 25 per cent by the end of this session of Parliament, to lay the groundw...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Kevin Stewart SNP
I have a lot to get through, so I will not take Ms Baillie’s intervention. We must reintroduce a focus on early intervention and prevention. We must limit t...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
More than a decade ago, the Scottish Labour Party called for the creation of a national care service. Our vision was rooted in a belief that social care coul...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Paul O’Kane Lab
I have a lot to get through, so I want to make some progress. The loss of confidence in this proposal has been growing, week on week. That is why, today, Sc...
Emma Harper SNP
Fantastic. I thank the member for taking an intervention. I just want to ask Paul O’Kane, as a member of the Health and Sport Committee—which I am as well—wh...
Paul O’Kane Lab
What I recognise is that the Government has been talking about this and consulting on it for months. I recognise that the Convention of Scottish Local Author...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Mr O’Kane give way?
Paul O’Kane Lab
I am running short of time, as I am into my final minute. I am sure that the minister will be able to raise his point in his concluding remarks. The Scottis...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am pleased to rise for the Scottish Liberal Democrats, and I am grateful to Craig Hoy for securing the debate. Words matter. What we call things matters. ...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I want to put it on the record, as somebody who raised some of those points, that I am absolutely in favour of the national care service. It is the kind of a...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I can only imagine that Michelle Thomson’s mobile phone must have been red hot between the time that she made her remark that she had “no confidence whatever...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I am afraid that I must make progress, as I have only four minutes. We must remember that, despite the incredibly important service that social care staff p...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:47
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Last week, Jackie Baillie said that she has a long memory when it comes to parliamentary experience. Although I cannot compete with her on longevity, I can g...
Michelle Thomson SNP
In fairness, will Liz Smith concede that the larger and more audacious and ambitious a project is, the more difficult it is to achieve accuracy at the point ...
Liz Smith Con
During my time in the Parliament, which now stretches to 16 years, I have never seen a financial memorandum that is so lacking in that regard. As Audit Scotl...