Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,096,833
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,096,833 contributions in session S6, 11 May 2026 – 10 Jun 2026. Latest 30 days: 2,655. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 09 Jun 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 November 2022

02 Nov 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Care Service
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

During my time in the Parliament, which now stretches to 16 years, I have never seen a financial memorandum that is so lacking in that regard. As Audit Scotland points out, a number of costs associated with the bill are yet to be assessed, including those relating to national care boards, transition costs, pensions, VAT and capital investment and maintenance costs. Those costs are surely extremely important and are of considerable concern to stakeholders.

The Fraser of Allander Institute has suggested that groups that tried to estimate the costs had to persistently question civil servants to find out the additional costs—those beyond the core costs that are mentioned in the financial memorandum. Virtually every stakeholder is asking those key questions, and I would have thought that that would be of considerable concern to the Scottish Government. I suggest that it is entirely the wrong way round to have a situation in which it is not possible to scrutinise enough of the bill. That is why COSLA, councils, trade unions and front-line staff in the public and private sectors are getting angry. They simply do not have the answers that they need.

Let me turn to the evidence that Ralph Roberts presented on behalf of NHS chief executives. He rightly cited the Scottish Government’s very welcome focus on improving social care, on developing better quality and consistency when it comes to data and on ensuring that some of the intense workforce pressures on the NHS are addressed. However, when he was asked about the extent of the restructuring, which is on a scale that is equivalent to major reforms such as the centralisation of the police force and college regionalisation, he was much more sceptical. He said that what is proposed by the Scottish Government is not supported by NHS chief executives at this time, when they are having to deal with other pressures and when all spare capacity is already being taken up. Mr Roberts suggested that we should consider other ways of tackling the issues at stake before this leviathan new structure is even contemplated, given that so many costs are unaccounted for.

People are asking whether the bill is necessary to deliver the desired ambitions, not just because of the current economic challenges but because of the extensive disruption that is likely to take place through structural change.

I have every support for the motion in the name of Craig Hoy.

15:52  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-06523, in the name of Craig Hoy, on national care service viability. I ask members who wish to participat...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
This Scottish National Party Government is setting out on the most radical reform of Scottish public services in the history of devolution, but ministers can...
Emma Roddick (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
The member mentioned the NHS, and I note that his party voted against the creation of the NHS 22 times. Does he not recognise that people with lived experien...
Craig Hoy Con
The Conservative Party might not have given birth to the NHS, but Conservative Government after Conservative Government has nurtured it through good times an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I remind members that we are extremely tight for time and that they will need to accommodate any interventions in their time allocation. 15:21
The Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care (Kevin Stewart) SNP
The bill sets out our clear principles for the future of a national care service, and it is against those principles that the bill should be scrutinised, the...
Kevin Stewart SNP
I do not really have time, but I will take Ms Smith’s intervention.
Liz Smith Con
I will be quick. The minister has spelled out laudable aims, but why are so many stakeholders opposed to the bill?
Kevin Stewart SNP
There are stakeholders who are not content with all aspects of it, but I point out to members that it is about people, and, in the consultation, people backe...
Kevin Stewart SNP
The Scottish Government has been leading the way in the United Kingdom to improve pay and terms and conditions. I am shortly due to chair an event with COSLA...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the minister take an intervention on that point?
Kevin Stewart SNP
The Government has already committed itself to increasing spending in social care by 25 per cent by the end of this session of Parliament, to lay the groundw...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Kevin Stewart SNP
I have a lot to get through, so I will not take Ms Baillie’s intervention. We must reintroduce a focus on early intervention and prevention. We must limit t...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
More than a decade ago, the Scottish Labour Party called for the creation of a national care service. Our vision was rooted in a belief that social care coul...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Paul O’Kane Lab
I have a lot to get through, so I want to make some progress. The loss of confidence in this proposal has been growing, week on week. That is why, today, Sc...
Emma Harper SNP
Fantastic. I thank the member for taking an intervention. I just want to ask Paul O’Kane, as a member of the Health and Sport Committee—which I am as well—wh...
Paul O’Kane Lab
What I recognise is that the Government has been talking about this and consulting on it for months. I recognise that the Convention of Scottish Local Author...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Mr O’Kane give way?
Paul O’Kane Lab
I am running short of time, as I am into my final minute. I am sure that the minister will be able to raise his point in his concluding remarks. The Scottis...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am pleased to rise for the Scottish Liberal Democrats, and I am grateful to Craig Hoy for securing the debate. Words matter. What we call things matters. ...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I want to put it on the record, as somebody who raised some of those points, that I am absolutely in favour of the national care service. It is the kind of a...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I can only imagine that Michelle Thomson’s mobile phone must have been red hot between the time that she made her remark that she had “no confidence whatever...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I am afraid that I must make progress, as I have only four minutes. We must remember that, despite the incredibly important service that social care staff p...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:47
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Last week, Jackie Baillie said that she has a long memory when it comes to parliamentary experience. Although I cannot compete with her on longevity, I can g...
Michelle Thomson SNP
In fairness, will Liz Smith concede that the larger and more audacious and ambitious a project is, the more difficult it is to achieve accuracy at the point ...
Liz Smith Con
During my time in the Parliament, which now stretches to 16 years, I have never seen a financial memorandum that is so lacking in that regard. As Audit Scotl...