Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 02 November 2022
02 Nov 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Care Service
Last week, Jackie Baillie said that she has a long memory when it comes to parliamentary experience. Although I cannot compete with her on longevity, I can get quite close, and I certainly remember a couple of occasions when there were serious concerns about financial memoranda that were designed to underpin major pieces of proposed legislation. That happened with the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill and with college regionalisation. However, never in my time in the Scottish Parliament have I seen a financial memorandum that is so out of kilter with the ambitions of a bill and so lacking in detail.
Michelle Thomson and Kenny Gibson were spot on last week, and Michelle Thomson is spot on again this afternoon, in saying that they have a duty of scrutiny—they do. They said that it is not possible to have confidence in the financial memorandum and that it is a “monumental risk” to taxpayers. That is not a good place for the Scottish Government or the Parliament to be in. When it comes to scrutiny of the bill, the financial memorandum certainly does not adhere to the request from Audit Scotland to ensure that we have more accurate financial memoranda accompanying proposed legislation.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-06523, in the name of Craig Hoy, on national care service viability. I ask members who wish to participat...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
This Scottish National Party Government is setting out on the most radical reform of Scottish public services in the history of devolution, but ministers can...
Emma Roddick (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
The member mentioned the NHS, and I note that his party voted against the creation of the NHS 22 times. Does he not recognise that people with lived experien...
Craig Hoy
Con
The Conservative Party might not have given birth to the NHS, but Conservative Government after Conservative Government has nurtured it through good times an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I remind members that we are extremely tight for time and that they will need to accommodate any interventions in their time allocation. 15:21
The Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care (Kevin Stewart)
SNP
The bill sets out our clear principles for the future of a national care service, and it is against those principles that the bill should be scrutinised, the...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I do not really have time, but I will take Ms Smith’s intervention.
Liz Smith
Con
I will be quick. The minister has spelled out laudable aims, but why are so many stakeholders opposed to the bill?
Kevin Stewart
SNP
There are stakeholders who are not content with all aspects of it, but I point out to members that it is about people, and, in the consultation, people backe...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
The Scottish Government has been leading the way in the United Kingdom to improve pay and terms and conditions. I am shortly due to chair an event with COSLA...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention on that point?
Kevin Stewart
SNP
The Government has already committed itself to increasing spending in social care by 25 per cent by the end of this session of Parliament, to lay the groundw...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I have a lot to get through, so I will not take Ms Baillie’s intervention. We must reintroduce a focus on early intervention and prevention. We must limit t...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
More than a decade ago, the Scottish Labour Party called for the creation of a national care service. Our vision was rooted in a belief that social care coul...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I have a lot to get through, so I want to make some progress. The loss of confidence in this proposal has been growing, week on week. That is why, today, Sc...
Emma Harper
SNP
Fantastic. I thank the member for taking an intervention. I just want to ask Paul O’Kane, as a member of the Health and Sport Committee—which I am as well—wh...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
What I recognise is that the Government has been talking about this and consulting on it for months. I recognise that the Convention of Scottish Local Author...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will Mr O’Kane give way?
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I am running short of time, as I am into my final minute. I am sure that the minister will be able to raise his point in his concluding remarks. The Scottis...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
I am pleased to rise for the Scottish Liberal Democrats, and I am grateful to Craig Hoy for securing the debate. Words matter. What we call things matters. ...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP)
SNP
I want to put it on the record, as somebody who raised some of those points, that I am absolutely in favour of the national care service. It is the kind of a...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
I can only imagine that Michelle Thomson’s mobile phone must have been red hot between the time that she made her remark that she had “no confidence whatever...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will the member give way?
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
I am afraid that I must make progress, as I have only four minutes. We must remember that, despite the incredibly important service that social care staff p...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
We move to the open debate. 15:47
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Last week, Jackie Baillie said that she has a long memory when it comes to parliamentary experience. Although I cannot compete with her on longevity, I can g...
Michelle Thomson
SNP
In fairness, will Liz Smith concede that the larger and more audacious and ambitious a project is, the more difficult it is to achieve accuracy at the point ...
Liz Smith
Con
During my time in the Parliament, which now stretches to 16 years, I have never seen a financial memorandum that is so lacking in that regard. As Audit Scotl...