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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 November 2022

01 Nov 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Low Income and Debt (Report)

As convener of the COVID-19 Recovery Committee, it is my pleasure to speak about such an important topic, and I commend the Social Justice and Social Security Committee for bringing the debate to the chamber.

I will shortly talk about some of the COVID-19 Recovery Committee’s work within the context of the cost crisis. First, though, it is important to stress that the impact of the cost crisis is a cross-cutting issue that affects everyone. This debate is an excellent opportunity to highlight parliamentary committees’ welcome scrutiny of the issue.

Like other committees, we have just completed our pre-budget scrutiny. Last week, we wrote to the Deputy First Minister with our recommendations, which included calling on the Scottish Government to clarify whether the cost crisis will affect the funding of the Covid recovery strategy. As members are aware, the strategy was published in October 2021, well before the scale of the cost crisis was apparent. During evidence, we heard how the impact of the cost crisis could affect the funding and delivery of the strategy, with stark warnings that it will pose significant challenges for organisations, service providers and individuals that are even greater than those faced during the pandemic. The Scottish Government’s budget is worth roughly £1.7 billion less than it was last December, and we asked whether the Government intends to refresh the strategy to reflect any policy changes in the light of the cost crisis.

In a similar vein, at a recent Conveners Group meeting, I asked the First Minister whether the Government’s priorities for recovery had changed in the light of the cost crisis. She confirmed that its aims and objectives for recovery had not changed but that the context had. The First Minister spoke of the importance of focusing on inequalities made worse by the pandemic and the cost crisis, particularly for ethnic minorities and those who are less well off.

Among many other things, the report considered bankruptcy and digital exclusion, both of which have been impacted by the cost crisis. The COVID-19 Recovery Committee also considered those areas as part of our scrutiny of the Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill. Put simply, the bill was introduced to make permanent some provisions that were introduced through emergency Covid legislation in relation to public health and public service reform, which covered the remote delivery of public services. The aim was to retain service improvements that had been brought in during the pandemic and support resilience against future public health threats.

We heard about the experience of delivering public services remotely, including increased flexibilities and resource savings. However, witnesses highlighted some of the barriers to accessibility that exist for some users. The committee recommended that the bill be amended to ensure that all local authorities provide a choice of remote or in-person services, including the provision of hard copy documents where required.

We also considered the bill’s provisions on bankruptcy. Before I go on, it is worth explaining that people can only be forced into bankruptcy by their creditors if they owe more than a certain amount of money. Covid emergency legislation increased the debt threshold at which a creditor could make someone bankrupt, to protect people from harsh outcomes during the pandemic, and the bill set it permanently at a higher rate. The committee heard mixed views on what the debt threshold level should be, and it noted that the cost crisis had escalated considerably since the bill was introduced. The Government subsequently acknowledged the need to keep the threshold under review, particularly in the light of the current economic situation.

I turn to the committee’s future work. We are about to look at the impact of Covid on the labour market, focusing specifically on the proportion of economically inactive people who are on long-term sickness absence, as well as those who have chosen early retirement.? I am sure that issues relating to the cost crisis are bound to come up over the course of our inquiry.

As has been the case with Covid itself, this issue is a complex one that will not go away any time soon. As other members have said, addressing it will require actions from both the UK and Scottish Governments. Today’s debate highlights the strong parliamentary scrutiny that is being carried out to ensure that we can respond appropriately to the fiscal pressures that we all face.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-06374, in the name of Elena Whitham, on behalf of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, on “R...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
As convener of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, I am pleased to open the debate on the committee’s important report on low income and debt. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
Thank you and well done, Ms Whitham. I look forward to seeing you back at the members’ business debate later on. Before we move to the next speaker, I encou...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
I thank the Social Justice and Social Security Committee for bringing the debate to the chamber. Earlier this year, the Health, Social Care and Sport Commit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Siobhian Brown to speak on behalf of the COVID-19 Recovery Committee. 15:16
Siobhian Brown (Ayr) (SNP) SNP
As convener of the COVID-19 Recovery Committee, it is my pleasure to speak about such an important topic, and I commend the Social Justice and Social Securit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I advise members that we have a little time in hand, so, for the foreseeable future, members who take interventions will get their time back. 15:21
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison) SNP
I am grateful to Elena Whitham and her committee for their substantial work on this inquiry. I thank the individuals and organisations who took the time to g...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
One of the budget measures that had been hoped for was that free school meals for primary 7 pupils would be provided in this financial year, but that has bee...
Shona Robison SNP
As Jeremy Balfour will be aware, the free school meal provision in Scotland is way in excess of that offered anywhere else in these islands—particularly Engl...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I note what the cabinet secretary has said about the child winter heating assistance. Does she agree that disabled people over the age of 16 also face increa...
Shona Robison SNP
We recognise that. Many of the things that I have already talked about will help people with disabled family members. The Scottish welfare fund, which we als...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you a bit more time, because we have a bit of time in hand.
Shona Robison SNP
That would be extremely helpful. Thank you. We have tried to bring together in one place all the information that I have described, because we know that it ...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank all those who contributed to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s inquiry, and I thank organisations for the helpful briefings that the...
Shona Robison SNP
Does not the funding of all our public services—whether they are local government or national health service services—really depend on the decisions that are...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give Miles Briggs time back.
Miles Briggs Con
Thank you. We have to look at the history and the fact that the Scottish Government has the highest budget in the history of devolution, but it decided to c...
Elena Whitham SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Miles Briggs Con
If there is time in hand.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You have time in hand.
Elena Whitham SNP
Miles Briggs mentioned young parents. Does he agree that the UK Government’s Department for Work and Pensions policy on how young parents under 25 are treate...
Miles Briggs Con
I agree with Elena Whitham on that and, as I have said in committee, I hope that the UK Government can look at the issue. We have heard evidence that that ne...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I note that a number of members have been coming in and out of the chamber. I remind members that those who are participating in the debate should remain in ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I put on record my thanks to the many organisations and people who gave evidence to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee as part of our inquiry a...
The Minister for Public Finance, Planning and Community Wealth (Tom Arthur) SNP
As the member will be aware, the review of statutory debt solutions will be carried out in three phases. The first phase was an initial response to the crisi...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I acknowledge the work of the review group so far. However, as the minister acknowledged in his intervention, the detail of phase 3 has not yet been set out ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to wind up now, Ms Duncan-Glancy.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
The Government must go further in encouraging more local authorities to follow suit. People cannot wait any longer. What more will it take for the Governmen...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:51