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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 October 2022

27 Oct 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I am short of time, but I will address matters in my closing remarks if Ms Hamilton wishes to put them on the record later.

The committee sought further clarity on the meaning of the phrase “ordinarily resident” in the bill, which we have provided in our response. Being “ordinarily resident” is an established concept in several areas of law, including pensions and benefits, taxation and jurisdiction, and including in at least 17 acts of the Scottish Parliament. In general, it means that someone’s residence here is voluntary, for settled purposes and lawful.

The committee noted the concerns raised by several witnesses that the provision allowing a person who has an interest in a GRC to apply to the sheriff to revoke such a certificate might allow legitimate applications to be frustrated. Although I understand such concerns, under the bill a person seeking to revoke a certificate has to have a genuine interest in the GRC. It would have to affect them materially, and personally or professionally, and they would have to prove the ground on which the certificate could be revoked. References to a “person who has an interest” are also common in acts of this Parliament.

The committee rightly highlights the importance to trans people that a GRC issued in Scotland should be recognised in the rest of the United Kingdom. Trans people will continue to be protected from gender reassignment discrimination under the Equality Act 2010 throughout the UK, whether or not they have a GRC.

It will be for other jurisdictions to set their policy on whether they recognise legal gender recognition obtained elsewhere. Under the current system, some people who have obtained legal gender recognition outwith the UK, including under systems based on self-determination similar to that proposed in the bill, can apply in the UK without needing to provide any medical evidence.

It is, of course, not uncommon for Scottish legislation to have implications for the rest of the UK. A section 104 order under the Scotland Act 1998 provides the mechanism for the UK and Scottish Governments to work together to make consequential modifications. The Scottish, UK and Northern Irish Governments are working together at official level, and I have written to the UK equalities minister reaffirming our commitment to work constructively together on the matter.

There is majority support from the committee for the bill as introduced. Four of the five parties in the chamber advocated for gender recognition reform in their manifestos. The Scottish Government has responded to the committee’s requests for further clarity in its written response. The bill has been subject to extensive scrutiny, both by the public through consultation and by a range of experts and stakeholders during the committee’s evidence sessions.

It is clear from the stage 1 report that the committee’s majority view is that the proposed reforms will support trans men and women to obtain legal gender recognition in a manner that is significantly less demeaning than the current medicalised system.

I look forward to hearing members’ views and I welcome the opportunity to engage with them again on the bill. I again thank the committee for its work during stage 1 and in the weeks to come.

I move,

That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-06459, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. 14:56
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison) SNP
The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill reforms the process that has been in place for the past 18 years for trans men and women to obtain a gender rec...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I endorse everything that the cabinet secretary has just said about the tone of the debate. There is real concern about the impact of what is being propose...
Shona Robison SNP
There is no change to the protections under the Equality Act 2010. I will now come on to the issue of the impact on women and girls, which some people are co...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
The cabinet secretary will recognise my passion to ensure that everyone has equal access to sport. Does she recognise that, when males and females go through...
Shona Robison SNP
I want to make it clear that the bill changes none of that. It is for sports governing bodies to establish what is right for their sports. The member will be...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
The cabinet secretary knows that I support the bill in principle, but I have some concerns about people in the 16 to 18 age range, notwithstanding the issue ...
Shona Robison SNP
I am happy to give that commitment. The majority of the committee support a reduction in the period of time that applicants must have lived in the acquired ...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Shona Robison SNP
I am short of time, but I will address matters in my closing remarks if Ms Hamilton wishes to put them on the record later. The committee sought further cla...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I take this opportunity to advise members that there is some time in hand for interventions. I call Joe FitzPatrick to speak on behalf of the Equalities, Hu...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate as convener of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. I thank everyone who provi...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
I thank the member, but there is so much work in the committee’s report that I want to ensure that I take the time to go through it, so unfortunately I will ...
Tess White Con
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
As I have said, I am speaking as the convener of the committee and am trying to get through an in-depth report. The committee covered a lot of issues and gro...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. It is very important that members have the opportunity to intervene on the convener of the committee. There are matte...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you for that point of order. As members will be aware, it is entirely a matter for the member who is speaking whether they accept an intervention.
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
The committee supports the proposed reduction from two years to three months of the period for which an applicant must have lived in their acquired gender be...
Rachael Hamilton Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Notwithstanding that, we were satisfied that the possession of a GRC does not affect the Scottish Prison Service’s risk assessment process, whereby an indivi...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Considering that some members will not take interventions, I would like to ask a couple of questions. First, I would like to know from the cabinet secretary...
Christine Grahame SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Rachael Hamilton Con
I have not even got into the substance of my speech. I will take an intervention if there is something specific that the member would like to ask me about. ...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take a brief intervention on that point?
Rachael Hamilton Con
I will in a second. Let us just drop the pretence and have a grown-up conversation about what it means to issue more GRCs to a wider group and about the obv...
Ruth Maguire SNP
I appreciate Rachael Hamilton giving way. Did the committee receive a definition of what it means to live in an acquired gender?
Rachael Hamilton Con
That is a great question, because the definition was already in the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the bill is just rolling it over into this legislation, a...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I do not think it is fair to say that the Cass review was brushed aside. I and others specifically highlighted that there were areas that the Cass review was...
Rachael Hamilton Con
Perhaps it is being a bit brutal on the views of the committee. However, two of us—my colleague Pam Gosal and I—think that the legislation should be paused u...