Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 27 October 2022
27 Oct 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I endorse everything that the cabinet secretary has just said about the tone of the debate.
There is real concern about the impact of what is being proposed. Is it the Scottish Government’s position that the issuing of a gender recognition certificate changes someone’s sex in relation to the Equality Act 2010? If so, that will open to biological males a whole range of spaces and services that are currently reserved to women and girls, and that change will be made without the need for any medical intervention.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-06459, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. 14:56
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison)
SNP
The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill reforms the process that has been in place for the past 18 years for trans men and women to obtain a gender rec...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I endorse everything that the cabinet secretary has just said about the tone of the debate. There is real concern about the impact of what is being propose...
Shona Robison
SNP
There is no change to the protections under the Equality Act 2010. I will now come on to the issue of the impact on women and girls, which some people are co...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
The cabinet secretary will recognise my passion to ensure that everyone has equal access to sport. Does she recognise that, when males and females go through...
Shona Robison
SNP
I want to make it clear that the bill changes none of that. It is for sports governing bodies to establish what is right for their sports. The member will be...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
The cabinet secretary knows that I support the bill in principle, but I have some concerns about people in the 16 to 18 age range, notwithstanding the issue ...
Shona Robison
SNP
I am happy to give that commitment. The majority of the committee support a reduction in the period of time that applicants must have lived in the acquired ...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Shona Robison
SNP
I am short of time, but I will address matters in my closing remarks if Ms Hamilton wishes to put them on the record later. The committee sought further cla...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I take this opportunity to advise members that there is some time in hand for interventions. I call Joe FitzPatrick to speak on behalf of the Equalities, Hu...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP)
SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate as convener of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. I thank everyone who provi...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
I thank the member, but there is so much work in the committee’s report that I want to ensure that I take the time to go through it, so unfortunately I will ...
Tess White
Con
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
As I have said, I am speaking as the convener of the committee and am trying to get through an in-depth report. The committee covered a lot of issues and gro...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. It is very important that members have the opportunity to intervene on the convener of the committee. There are matte...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you for that point of order. As members will be aware, it is entirely a matter for the member who is speaking whether they accept an intervention.
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
The committee supports the proposed reduction from two years to three months of the period for which an applicant must have lived in their acquired gender be...
Rachael Hamilton
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
Notwithstanding that, we were satisfied that the possession of a GRC does not affect the Scottish Prison Service’s risk assessment process, whereby an indivi...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
Considering that some members will not take interventions, I would like to ask a couple of questions. First, I would like to know from the cabinet secretary...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Rachael Hamilton
Con
I have not even got into the substance of my speech. I will take an intervention if there is something specific that the member would like to ask me about. ...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take a brief intervention on that point?
Rachael Hamilton
Con
I will in a second. Let us just drop the pretence and have a grown-up conversation about what it means to issue more GRCs to a wider group and about the obv...
Ruth Maguire
SNP
I appreciate Rachael Hamilton giving way. Did the committee receive a definition of what it means to live in an acquired gender?
Rachael Hamilton
Con
That is a great question, because the definition was already in the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the bill is just rolling it over into this legislation, a...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I do not think it is fair to say that the Cass review was brushed aside. I and others specifically highlighted that there were areas that the Cass review was...
Rachael Hamilton
Con
Perhaps it is being a bit brutal on the views of the committee. However, two of us—my colleague Pam Gosal and I—think that the legislation should be paused u...