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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 October 2022

27 Oct 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill reforms the process that has been in place for the past 18 years for trans men and women to obtain a gender recognition certificate, or GRC. We know from extensive consultation, as well as from evidence heard by the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, that many trans people find the current system overly medicalised, complex, intrusive and invasive. Its barriers prevent many trans people from applying for a GRC. The bill will make the process simpler, more streamlined and more respectful of the privacy and dignity of trans men and women.

I am grateful to the committee for its majority support for the general principles of the bill, and I thank committee members for their extensive work in scrutinising the bill. I also thank the many organisations and individuals who have participated by providing evidence since the bill was introduced.

I acknowledge that people across the chamber and among the wider public have differing and genuinely held opinions on the matter of gender recognition reform. When I introduced the bill, I committed to listening to the views of everyone in a respectful manner. I have done and continue to do that, and I am confident that this afternoon’s debate will be open, considered and respectful, consistent with the approach taken by the committee. As a Parliament, we have a responsibility to protect and support minority groups. One way in which we can do that is by leading by example with the tone of our discussions. To date, the committee and the Parliament have always ensured that the tone is respectful.

However, we know that that is not always the case outside the Parliament, particularly on social media. Abuse directed at anyone on this matter, whatever their opinion, is wrong. It is important to recognise the discrimination, harassment and abuse faced by trans people in Scotland simply for living their lives, which is wrong, too. Statistics from Police Scotland show that the incidence of hate crimes against people for being transgender has increased. Evidence suggests that the tone of discourse surrounding legal gender recognition has contributed to that. No matter what our point of view, we can all call that out where we see it and remain respectful to each other’s opinions.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-06459, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. 14:56
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison) SNP
The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill reforms the process that has been in place for the past 18 years for trans men and women to obtain a gender rec...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I endorse everything that the cabinet secretary has just said about the tone of the debate. There is real concern about the impact of what is being propose...
Shona Robison SNP
There is no change to the protections under the Equality Act 2010. I will now come on to the issue of the impact on women and girls, which some people are co...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
The cabinet secretary will recognise my passion to ensure that everyone has equal access to sport. Does she recognise that, when males and females go through...
Shona Robison SNP
I want to make it clear that the bill changes none of that. It is for sports governing bodies to establish what is right for their sports. The member will be...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
The cabinet secretary knows that I support the bill in principle, but I have some concerns about people in the 16 to 18 age range, notwithstanding the issue ...
Shona Robison SNP
I am happy to give that commitment. The majority of the committee support a reduction in the period of time that applicants must have lived in the acquired ...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Shona Robison SNP
I am short of time, but I will address matters in my closing remarks if Ms Hamilton wishes to put them on the record later. The committee sought further cla...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I take this opportunity to advise members that there is some time in hand for interventions. I call Joe FitzPatrick to speak on behalf of the Equalities, Hu...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate as convener of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. I thank everyone who provi...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
I thank the member, but there is so much work in the committee’s report that I want to ensure that I take the time to go through it, so unfortunately I will ...
Tess White Con
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
As I have said, I am speaking as the convener of the committee and am trying to get through an in-depth report. The committee covered a lot of issues and gro...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. It is very important that members have the opportunity to intervene on the convener of the committee. There are matte...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you for that point of order. As members will be aware, it is entirely a matter for the member who is speaking whether they accept an intervention.
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
The committee supports the proposed reduction from two years to three months of the period for which an applicant must have lived in their acquired gender be...
Rachael Hamilton Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Notwithstanding that, we were satisfied that the possession of a GRC does not affect the Scottish Prison Service’s risk assessment process, whereby an indivi...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Considering that some members will not take interventions, I would like to ask a couple of questions. First, I would like to know from the cabinet secretary...
Christine Grahame SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Rachael Hamilton Con
I have not even got into the substance of my speech. I will take an intervention if there is something specific that the member would like to ask me about. ...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take a brief intervention on that point?
Rachael Hamilton Con
I will in a second. Let us just drop the pretence and have a grown-up conversation about what it means to issue more GRCs to a wider group and about the obv...
Ruth Maguire SNP
I appreciate Rachael Hamilton giving way. Did the committee receive a definition of what it means to live in an acquired gender?
Rachael Hamilton Con
That is a great question, because the definition was already in the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the bill is just rolling it over into this legislation, a...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I do not think it is fair to say that the Cass review was brushed aside. I and others specifically highlighted that there were areas that the Cass review was...
Rachael Hamilton Con
Perhaps it is being a bit brutal on the views of the committee. However, two of us—my colleague Pam Gosal and I—think that the legislation should be paused u...