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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 26 October 2022

26 Oct 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Sewage and Scotland’s Waters
Kerr, Liam Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I congratulate Alex Cole-Hamilton on securing this members’ business debate, not least because it is not before time, as he rightly pointed out.

When I looked into the subject, I found—as Mr Cole-Hamilton did—what appears to be extraordinary complacency on the part of the Scottish Government. Far from acknowledging the issue and steeling herself to do something about it, I found the minister, in a contribution from December 2021, crowing that

“When it comes to Scotland’s water, we have so much to be proud of”—[Official Report, 22 December 2021, c 34.]

and trying to divert attention by making spurious comparisons with other countries. That was an answer that she repeated, practically verbatim, in June 2022, having, I presume, pulled the previous script off the shelf.

When, earlier this month, The Courier reported that Scottish Water had dumped raw sewage into Loch Leven, in what NatureScot termed a “serious pollution incident”, the minister was asked to comment. She declined to do so, perhaps—in the light of her earlier intervention—because her view is that that did not happen. A Scottish Government spokesperson was wheeled out to say simply that investment had been made in the past and that there would be more to come. There was no mention of what would actually change. That is utter complacency.

The various comparisons that have been made by the minister are false equivalences. The Ferret report that Alex Cole-Hamilton cites in the motion refers to the Scottish Government’s water environment policy manager, David Lister, saying that only 10 per cent of overflows in Scotland are monitored, compared with 80 per cent of those in England. I suspect that Alex Cole-Hamilton is right to say in his motion that the true number of discharges is likely to be much higher.

Actually, I do not suspect that—I know it. Just last week, though a freedom of information request, I got figures from Scottish Water covering the period from 2017 to 2021, which show that a total of 563,500 hours of sewage overflow were recorded in Scotland during that period. That is an increase of around 70 per cent in that time. Yes—members heard that right; the SNP has been allowing thousands of hours’ worth of sewage to be pumped into our rivers and lochs for years, and the problem is only getting worse. It should be remembered that that data is from only 10 per cent of the overflows.

The lack of data really worries me. In committee yesterday, I asked NatureScot what impact the overflows were having on its sites, and I was told that it does not have a lot of information on the effects that they have on protected sites and species. In the same session, I twice put the 10 per cent figure to SEPA and asked whether it felt that monitoring is sufficient and whether it should align with England’s 80 per cent to ensure that we can see what is going on, rather than simply denigrating the English and European figures, but no answer was forthcoming. It would be very interesting to hear, in her closing remarks, the minister’s view on the 10 per cent figure.

The freedom of information request also found out that the clean-up costs for sewage spills in Scotland had soared by 500 per cent over roughly the same period. That will be for the clean-up of 49 of the 87 designated bathing waters around Scotland in which SEPA recorded unsafe levels of faecal bacteria as a result of sewage contamination, which Alex Cole-Hamilton mentioned in his motion.

I congratulate Alex Cole-Hamilton on drawing attention to the problem and giving the minister a chance not to tell us how much investment has been made in the past, which we have heard is not preventing the overflows; not to throw up false equivalences in order to denigrate our UK and European friends and suggest that all is well in Scotland; and not simply to say, as she did in December last year, that

“we are determined and poised to do more”—[Official Report, 22 December 2021, c 35.]

but to acknowledge her Government’s failure and say that that simply is not good enough, and to set out clearly, concisely and comprehensively what her Government will do to address that shameful record.

18:22  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-06148, in the name of Alex Cole-Hamilton, on sewage and Scotland’s waters. The debate ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
There is not a member in the chamber who does not have, somewhere in their constituency or region, a beautiful expanse of our most vital natural resource. I ...
Siobhian Brown (Ayr) (SNP) SNP
Out of genuine interest, I ask whether the member agrees with the position that was put forward by Ross Finnie, formerly Minister for the Environment and Rur...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
That is a bit off topic. It is certainly an issue for debate at another time, but it says a lot about this Government’s priorities that that is the focus of ...
The Minister for Environment and Land Reform (Màiri McAllan) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I will, from the minister.
Màiri McAllan SNP
Given the member’s comments on Loch Leven, perhaps I could get his view on the fact that SEPA inspected the location after the incident on 8 September and “...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I am fascinated by that, because it flies in the face of fact. There are many witnesses to that happening. If the Government is telling us that it is not hap...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing the debate to the chamber. I welcome the opportunity to participate, not least as chair of the Nigg waste water treat...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Alex Cole-Hamilton on securing this members’ business debate, not least because it is not before time, as he rightly pointed out. When I look...
Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for securing this important debate. His motion rightly stresses the importance of affording the highest possible protection to our...
Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for securing this crucial debate. As we have heard already, The Ferret has identified that the untreated human waste flowing into ...
Siobhian Brown (Ayr) (SNP) SNP
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing the debate to the chamber; I completely agree with him that Scotland’s natural environment deserves the highest stand...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for securing the debate, because the issue of sewage and pollution needs to be tackled more effectively. I also thank The Ferret t...
The Minister for Environment and Land Reform (Màiri McAllan) SNP
I am very pleased to be taking part in today’s debate, and I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for securing it. It is a topic that I know he cares about, as do I. Th...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Màiri McAllan SNP
I have a lot that I want to put on the record this afternoon, but I will take a short intervention.
Liam Kerr Con
The minister appears to have entirely missed my point: if we monitor only 10 per cent of the overflows, as against the 80 per cent that are monitored in Engl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Minister, I can give you all the time back.
Màiri McAllan SNP
The figures that I cited are not linked directly to the monitoring of CSOs; they relate to a holistic assessment of the water quality in Scotland. If we brea...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I am very grateful for the clarification from the minister, but her intervention did change the character of the debate. A person listening to the minister’s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Minister, again, I can give you all the time back.
Màiri McAllan SNP
If I was disingenuous, that was not my intention. I have just clarified my intention, which was to point out that SEPA has made an active assessment of the s...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
When I asked the First Minister about the matter a few months ago, Scottish Water contacted me and we had an in-depth meeting about this very issue. Scottish...
Màiri McAllan SNP
The point that I am trying to make is that, when we seek to refer to specific incidents, we should be very clear about the term “raw sewage” and the extent t...