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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 September 2022

27 Sep 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Population

Scottish Liberal Democrats recognise the challenge of population decline and agree with the principle that immigration is a good thing that can provide benefits across Scotland. It can be a means of bringing in new workers and people to jobs and areas with populations that are currently in decline.

My MP colleague Alistair Carmichael has been campaigning for changes to immigration visas for fishing crew, to address shortages. The Migration Advisory Committee previously suggested that such shortages in the fishing industry could be filled by young people on gap years, which demonstrated a lack of understanding about employment in one of Scotland’s important industries.

Although rural visa pilots could be a way to help to reverse depopulation if there were greater understanding than exists in the current system, they would not be a magic bullet. As other members have said, there is no single solution to growing the population. We cannot encourage new workers and others to areas that have insufficient housing and strained services. There needs to be infrastructure to support both people who are newly arriving and those who are already here. That is why my amendment, which was not selected, called on the Scottish Government to look at practical solutions to help to reverse depopulation, which is a major concern for rural communities. Having too few people in a location threatens the viability of an area. That risk is felt severely in island communities, especially when the working-age population reduces so much that those who are left bear the brunt of doing necessary and often multiple jobs.

Lack of housing is a significant factor in areas with declining populations. Ross-shire is one such area in which the housing shortage is felt acutely. Doctors are unable to find housing—even just for the short term—to enable them to plug gaps in the national health service. We need more homes—and homes that live up to 21st century standards. That means creating sustainable and accessible housing and different varieties of housing.

Scottish Liberal Democrats are also pressing for greater connectivity. Broadband connections are still a problem in rural and island communities. I have had constituents tell me that they fear that they will have to close their online businesses due to poor connections. Others are losing custom due to the lack of mobile signal required for modern payment systems. Rural mobile networks can be overwhelmed by surges of—very welcome—tourists and will need to be updated for population increases. Questions about new homes being connected to the broadband network must also be resolved. We need guarantees from the Scottish Government about infill for new housing to the broadband network once the reaching 100 per cent—R100—programme and voucher schemes wind up.

We also need investment in transport infrastructure. The cabinet secretary referred to tailored solutions. Building tunnel infrastructure is about so much more than providing social benefits to local communities. I am confident that having such infrastructure in Shetland would help to reverse depopulation in the isles. The evidence is already there—in Trondra, where the population fell to 14 but rose again after a fixed link was built.

It is all happening in Shetland. SaxaVord—the “Spaceport above all others”—is bringing exciting investment and innovation to Scotland. We can unlock more potential by providing infrastructure to dramatically reduce travel time between the islands of Unst ,Yell and mainland Shetland. That would also benefit the thriving aquaculture sector and the export of millions of pounds’ worth of white fish that is currently landed at Cullivoe, both of which currently rely on the ferry service between those three locations.

However, it is not just local communities that would benefit from tunnel infrastructure. Given the greater economic growth that it would create, as well as the bringing of more jobs and people there, the islands’ contribution to Scotland’s economy would increase. I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for meeting me recently to discuss building tunnel infrastructure in Shetland and the role that it could have in reversing depopulation. He reflected on the need for folk to adjust their mental maps as investment and opportunities develop in the north of Scotland. I agree.

Depopulation needs an array of solutions to help us to reverse the present scenario. The motion has the potential to deflect from the failings of the Scottish Government’s existing powers in transport, housing and digital connectivity policies, all of which should help to reverse depopulation.

Finally, will the Scottish Government look at infill of the broadband network for new homes to enable their owners to join the service with ease and with equivalent subsidy once R100 and the voucher scheme come to an end? Will it also work to increase affordable homes under the rural and islands housing fund, which, since 2016, has built only 135 homes across Scotland? Further, will it commit to supporting feasibility studies for building tunnels in Shetland?

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on a motion entitled “Scotland’s population—Meeting the Needs of our Communities, Economy and Public Services”. I invit...
The Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to open this important debate on Scotland’s population. Scotland is its people: they are our most important resource. People delive...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary has set out some fundamental drivers. Within that, does he acknowledge that inward migration makes a bigger contribution to population ...
Angus Robertson SNP
I agree whole-heartedly. Birth rate issues have been a core part of the deliberations of the Scottish Government and its partners when dealing with the popul...
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am reflecting on the cabinet secretary’s point that population decline in Scotland is far greater than that in the rest of the UK. Does he have any idea wh...
Angus Robertson SNP
No, I do not, but I take the opportunity to invite Mr Lumsden and other members to read the document that we are debating and to reflect on the fact that we ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Angus Robertson SNP
I would like to make some progress on this point. Scotland needs working-age people to settle here in the long term and to raise families here. Our rural co...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives welcome the opportunity to debate the serious and important issue of Scotland’s population. It is no exaggeration to state that we...
Donald Cameron Con
Daniel Johnson has beaten me to it.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Although Donald Cameron is right that the situation is a challenge, and that, potentially, there are failures, it also comes from some successes in prolongin...
Donald Cameron Con
Absolutely. I was not seeking to make any judgment either about the decisions that people make about having children or about their general health and being ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron Con
Can I make a bit of progress? We have always believed that we need to target migration at sectors of the economy in Scotland with labour shortages. In our 2...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) SNP
Does the member accept that the requirement for seasonal agricultural workers exceeds 75,500—it is between 75,000 and 90,000—that the current extension of th...
Donald Cameron Con
I acknowledge the problem, but it is worth noting that the UK Government took action in 2018, and that that action continues. I turn to the Scottish Governm...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I begin by responding to the cabinet secretary’s remarks about the scale and fundamental nature of the challenge. He was absolutely correct. I would put it a...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I think that Daniel Johnson and I were on the same side of the Brexit argument. However, it is important to note that it was estimated that, since Brexit, 3....
Daniel Johnson Lab
I am grateful for that comment, because that was broadly my point. It is also worth noting that the contribution of the European Union towards our net migrat...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will in a moment. First, in relation to the working-age population, we must maximise skills and wages. We cannot allow people simply to have default skill...
Christine Grahame SNP
I must intervene on behalf of employers in the Borders and Midlothian, because they have certainly not lost “cheap labour”. They do not have bus drivers or p...
Daniel Johnson Lab
If that was how my sentiment came across, that was not my intention at all. However, there is an assumption that we can somehow bring people in from overseas...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
Scottish Liberal Democrats recognise the challenge of population decline and agree with the principle that immigration is a good thing that can provide benef...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:00
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Three weeks ago, the Finance and Public Administration Committee received an update from the Scottish Fiscal Commission. Some will remember, perhaps rather t...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I am grateful to the member for giving way, because I rushed through this point. Does the member agree that, fundamentally, this is about work supplementing,...
Kenneth Gibson SNP
I am happy to accept that point of clarification, because that is exactly what I mean. It is about choice, not forcing people to retire at an older age. Many...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I urge Mr Gibson to show respect.
Kenneth Gibson SNP
It has long been recognised that population growth in Scotland will require immigration. The end of freedom of movement within the EU because of a Brexit tha...