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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 September 2022

27 Sep 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Population
Cameron, Donald Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

Absolutely. I was not seeking to make any judgment either about the decisions that people make about having children or about their general health and being able to live longer. The issue has many causes and many symptoms. However, there are things that the Scottish Government can do to improve things, both in the short term and in the long term.

I welcome the mostly constructive approach of the cabinet secretary in his opening remarks. However, much of what he said, and much of what the motion states, focuses solely on the issue of migration. The Scottish Conservatives recognise that that is clearly part of the issue that Scotland faces. However, the reasons why we have such significant population issues run much deeper than just migration. Population growth, or the lack thereof, is an issue with many causes and goes much wider than simply migration. That is why we believe that there must be a sharp focus on identifying new ways and approaches for resolving our population crisis.

The Scottish Government appears to agree with that. Its 2021 report, “A Scotland for the Future: The opportunities and challenges of Scotland’s changing population” recommended 36 action points. It is a thorough report that forms the basis of a lot of what I am going to say. It explains the problems that we face. It recognises and attempts to address them.

In her opening comments in the report, former cabinet secretary Fiona Hyslop states:

“While the population of Scotland as a whole has grown and is projected to grow into the 2020s and 2030s, this masks a set of real and very significant demographic challenges”.

She goes on to say that, demographically, three things will impact Scotland: mortality, fertility and migration. I will look at those in turn.

The issue of mortality is very concerning, as recent data published by NRS shows. The data states that

“Scotland has the lowest life expectancy of all UK countries”

and that life expectancy for men and women declined between 2018 and 2021. Although NRS attributes that to the pandemic as a key reason, the same could be said for all countries that have experienced the pandemic. It is therefore particularly concerning that Scotland has been impacted so profoundly.

Fertility is also discussed at length. Scotland has the lowest total fertility rate of all the UK nations and has been in gradual decline since the mid-2000s. According to the report,

“Scotland’s total fertility rate ... has fallen from 2.5 in 1971 to a record low of 1.37 in 2019.”

Concerningly,

“early evidence from several European countries, including the UK, suggests that the pandemic has already had”

another

“significant impact on plans to have children.”

From children, I turn to our elderly. Although, undoubtedly, innovative policies are needed to address the workforce shortfalls among the working-age population, we cannot forget about older workers. Age Scotland notes that, by 2045, almost 50 per cent of the Scottish population will be over 50, and the number of people aged over 65 is projected to grow by a third. Surely it is right to say that the Scottish Government should send a message that older workers

“are a valuable asset to business, the economy and the country.”

The Scottish Conservatives whole-heartedly agree.

I turn to migration, which, as I said, we recognise is an area of policy with a part to play. We remain of the view that immigration should remain a reserved matter. A UK-wide immigration system is intrinsic to the proper functioning of the economy. However, we have always believed—

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on a motion entitled “Scotland’s population—Meeting the Needs of our Communities, Economy and Public Services”. I invit...
The Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to open this important debate on Scotland’s population. Scotland is its people: they are our most important resource. People delive...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary has set out some fundamental drivers. Within that, does he acknowledge that inward migration makes a bigger contribution to population ...
Angus Robertson SNP
I agree whole-heartedly. Birth rate issues have been a core part of the deliberations of the Scottish Government and its partners when dealing with the popul...
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am reflecting on the cabinet secretary’s point that population decline in Scotland is far greater than that in the rest of the UK. Does he have any idea wh...
Angus Robertson SNP
No, I do not, but I take the opportunity to invite Mr Lumsden and other members to read the document that we are debating and to reflect on the fact that we ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Angus Robertson SNP
I would like to make some progress on this point. Scotland needs working-age people to settle here in the long term and to raise families here. Our rural co...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives welcome the opportunity to debate the serious and important issue of Scotland’s population. It is no exaggeration to state that we...
Donald Cameron Con
Daniel Johnson has beaten me to it.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Although Donald Cameron is right that the situation is a challenge, and that, potentially, there are failures, it also comes from some successes in prolongin...
Donald Cameron Con
Absolutely. I was not seeking to make any judgment either about the decisions that people make about having children or about their general health and being ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron Con
Can I make a bit of progress? We have always believed that we need to target migration at sectors of the economy in Scotland with labour shortages. In our 2...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) SNP
Does the member accept that the requirement for seasonal agricultural workers exceeds 75,500—it is between 75,000 and 90,000—that the current extension of th...
Donald Cameron Con
I acknowledge the problem, but it is worth noting that the UK Government took action in 2018, and that that action continues. I turn to the Scottish Governm...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I begin by responding to the cabinet secretary’s remarks about the scale and fundamental nature of the challenge. He was absolutely correct. I would put it a...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I think that Daniel Johnson and I were on the same side of the Brexit argument. However, it is important to note that it was estimated that, since Brexit, 3....
Daniel Johnson Lab
I am grateful for that comment, because that was broadly my point. It is also worth noting that the contribution of the European Union towards our net migrat...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will in a moment. First, in relation to the working-age population, we must maximise skills and wages. We cannot allow people simply to have default skill...
Christine Grahame SNP
I must intervene on behalf of employers in the Borders and Midlothian, because they have certainly not lost “cheap labour”. They do not have bus drivers or p...
Daniel Johnson Lab
If that was how my sentiment came across, that was not my intention at all. However, there is an assumption that we can somehow bring people in from overseas...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
Scottish Liberal Democrats recognise the challenge of population decline and agree with the principle that immigration is a good thing that can provide benef...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:00
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Three weeks ago, the Finance and Public Administration Committee received an update from the Scottish Fiscal Commission. Some will remember, perhaps rather t...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I am grateful to the member for giving way, because I rushed through this point. Does the member agree that, fundamentally, this is about work supplementing,...
Kenneth Gibson SNP
I am happy to accept that point of clarification, because that is exactly what I mean. It is about choice, not forcing people to retire at an older age. Many...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I urge Mr Gibson to show respect.
Kenneth Gibson SNP
It has long been recognised that population growth in Scotland will require immigration. The end of freedom of movement within the EU because of a Brexit tha...