Hansard

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA

The next item of business is a debate on a motion entitled “Scotland’s population—Meeting the Needs of our Communities, Economy and Public Services”. I invit...

The Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson) SNP

I welcome the opportunity to open this important debate on Scotland’s population. Scotland is its people: they are our most important resource. People delive...

Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab

The cabinet secretary has set out some fundamental drivers. Within that, does he acknowledge that inward migration makes a bigger contribution to population ...

Angus Robertson SNP

I agree whole-heartedly. Birth rate issues have been a core part of the deliberations of the Scottish Government and its partners when dealing with the popul...

Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con

I am reflecting on the cabinet secretary’s point that population decline in Scotland is far greater than that in the rest of the UK. Does he have any idea wh...

Angus Robertson SNP

No, I do not, but I take the opportunity to invite Mr Lumsden and other members to read the document that we are debating and to reflect on the fact that we ...

Daniel Johnson Lab

Will the minister take an intervention?

Angus Robertson SNP

I would like to make some progress on this point. Scotland needs working-age people to settle here in the long term and to raise families here. Our rural co...

Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con

The Scottish Conservatives welcome the opportunity to debate the serious and important issue of Scotland’s population. It is no exaggeration to state that we...

Donald Cameron Con

Daniel Johnson has beaten me to it.

Daniel Johnson Lab

Although Donald Cameron is right that the situation is a challenge, and that, potentially, there are failures, it also comes from some successes in prolongin...

Donald Cameron Con

Absolutely. I was not seeking to make any judgment either about the decisions that people make about having children or about their general health and being ...

Daniel Johnson Lab

Will the member take an intervention?

Donald Cameron Con

Can I make a bit of progress? We have always believed that we need to target migration at sectors of the economy in Scotland with labour shortages. In our 2...

Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) SNP

Does the member accept that the requirement for seasonal agricultural workers exceeds 75,500—it is between 75,000 and 90,000—that the current extension of th...

Donald Cameron Con

I acknowledge the problem, but it is worth noting that the UK Government took action in 2018, and that that action continues. I turn to the Scottish Governm...

Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab

I begin by responding to the cabinet secretary’s remarks about the scale and fundamental nature of the challenge. He was absolutely correct. I would put it a...

Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con

I think that Daniel Johnson and I were on the same side of the Brexit argument. However, it is important to note that it was estimated that, since Brexit, 3....

Daniel Johnson Lab

I am grateful for that comment, because that was broadly my point. It is also worth noting that the contribution of the European Union towards our net migrat...

Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP

Will the member take an intervention?

Daniel Johnson Lab

I will in a moment. First, in relation to the working-age population, we must maximise skills and wages. We cannot allow people simply to have default skill...

Christine Grahame SNP

I must intervene on behalf of employers in the Borders and Midlothian, because they have certainly not lost “cheap labour”. They do not have bus drivers or p...

Daniel Johnson Lab

If that was how my sentiment came across, that was not my intention at all. However, there is an assumption that we can somehow bring people in from overseas...

Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD

Scottish Liberal Democrats recognise the challenge of population decline and agree with the principle that immigration is a good thing that can provide benef...

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP

We move to the open debate. 15:00

Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP

Three weeks ago, the Finance and Public Administration Committee received an update from the Scottish Fiscal Commission. Some will remember, perhaps rather t...

Daniel Johnson Lab

I am grateful to the member for giving way, because I rushed through this point. Does the member agree that, fundamentally, this is about work supplementing,...

Kenneth Gibson SNP

I am happy to accept that point of clarification, because that is exactly what I mean. It is about choice, not forcing people to retire at an older age. Many...

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

I urge Mr Gibson to show respect.

Kenneth Gibson SNP

It has long been recognised that population growth in Scotland will require immigration. The end of freedom of movement within the EU because of a Brexit tha...