Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 27 September 2022
27 Sep 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Population
The Scottish Conservatives welcome the opportunity to debate the serious and important issue of Scotland’s population. It is no exaggeration to state that we face significant demographic challenges. Countries across Europe are experiencing the same decline in their working-age populations, largely as a result of fewer births and people living for longer.
There are other reasons, of course, and it is clear that they are multifaceted and that no single Government can be held fully responsible for our current position, much of which predates not only the Brexit vote but devolution. There have been some clear policy failures, which have partly contributed to our own situation in Scotland. I will focus on those later in my remarks.
Daniel Johnson rose—
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on a motion entitled “Scotland’s population—Meeting the Needs of our Communities, Economy and Public Services”. I invit...
The Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to open this important debate on Scotland’s population. Scotland is its people: they are our most important resource. People delive...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
The cabinet secretary has set out some fundamental drivers. Within that, does he acknowledge that inward migration makes a bigger contribution to population ...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I agree whole-heartedly. Birth rate issues have been a core part of the deliberations of the Scottish Government and its partners when dealing with the popul...
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I am reflecting on the cabinet secretary’s point that population decline in Scotland is far greater than that in the rest of the UK. Does he have any idea wh...
Angus Robertson
SNP
No, I do not, but I take the opportunity to invite Mr Lumsden and other members to read the document that we are debating and to reflect on the fact that we ...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Angus Robertson
SNP
I would like to make some progress on this point. Scotland needs working-age people to settle here in the long term and to raise families here. Our rural co...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
The Scottish Conservatives welcome the opportunity to debate the serious and important issue of Scotland’s population. It is no exaggeration to state that we...
Donald Cameron
Con
Daniel Johnson has beaten me to it.
Daniel Johnson
Lab
Although Donald Cameron is right that the situation is a challenge, and that, potentially, there are failures, it also comes from some successes in prolongin...
Donald Cameron
Con
Absolutely. I was not seeking to make any judgment either about the decisions that people make about having children or about their general health and being ...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron
Con
Can I make a bit of progress? We have always believed that we need to target migration at sectors of the economy in Scotland with labour shortages. In our 2...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member accept that the requirement for seasonal agricultural workers exceeds 75,500—it is between 75,000 and 90,000—that the current extension of th...
Donald Cameron
Con
I acknowledge the problem, but it is worth noting that the UK Government took action in 2018, and that that action continues. I turn to the Scottish Governm...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
I begin by responding to the cabinet secretary’s remarks about the scale and fundamental nature of the challenge. He was absolutely correct. I would put it a...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
I think that Daniel Johnson and I were on the same side of the Brexit argument. However, it is important to note that it was estimated that, since Brexit, 3....
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I am grateful for that comment, because that was broadly my point. It is also worth noting that the contribution of the European Union towards our net migrat...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I will in a moment. First, in relation to the working-age population, we must maximise skills and wages. We cannot allow people simply to have default skill...
Christine Grahame
SNP
I must intervene on behalf of employers in the Borders and Midlothian, because they have certainly not lost “cheap labour”. They do not have bus drivers or p...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
If that was how my sentiment came across, that was not my intention at all. However, there is an assumption that we can somehow bring people in from overseas...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
Scottish Liberal Democrats recognise the challenge of population decline and agree with the principle that immigration is a good thing that can provide benef...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:00
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
Three weeks ago, the Finance and Public Administration Committee received an update from the Scottish Fiscal Commission. Some will remember, perhaps rather t...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I am grateful to the member for giving way, because I rushed through this point. Does the member agree that, fundamentally, this is about work supplementing,...
Kenneth Gibson
SNP
I am happy to accept that point of clarification, because that is exactly what I mean. It is about choice, not forcing people to retire at an older age. Many...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I urge Mr Gibson to show respect.
Kenneth Gibson
SNP
It has long been recognised that population growth in Scotland will require immigration. The end of freedom of movement within the EU because of a Brexit tha...