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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 September 2022

27 Sep 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Population

No, I do not, but I take the opportunity to invite Mr Lumsden and other members to read the document that we are debating and to reflect on the fact that we are trying to approach the challenge in partnership with representatives of local government from different parts of the country and with representatives of different parts of Scottish society. I would genuinely welcome a serious attempt by the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party to take part in that debate.

Last year, this Government published Scotland’s first population strategy—one that was endorsed by the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and that sets out the actions that we will look to take at local and national level to address our population challenges. Those actions were set out against four pillars, which set out that Scotland should be family friendly; be a healthy living society; be an attractive and welcoming country; and have a balanced population.

I chair a cross-cutting ministerial population task force, which is looking across Scottish Government to identify where policies should be strengthened and what new actions we need to take. In the past year, my task force colleagues and I have developed a new talent attraction and migration service that will be launched in 2023 to support both Scottish employers who will recruit and individuals who want to come to Scotland. We have committed to publishing an addressing depopulation action plan, working with communities facing the most acute population retention challenges. We have refreshed the independent expert advisory group on migration and population, which continues to provide expert advice, as it has done since 2018. We have commissioned new research looking at attitudes to family size and how those have changed over time and have looked to learn from work that other nations have done to address similar demographic challenges.

Scottish Government ministers have continued to reflect our demographic challenges in their own portfolios, through work such as the housing to 2040 strategy, the fourth national planning framework and the national islands plan.

Despite that work, there are crucial levers that are not within Scottish ministers’ control, most notably immigration. Scotland’s population is not a monolith. From Edinburgh to the Orkney Islands, from the Borders to Argyll and Bute, every local authority feels our demographic challenge differently. Some local authorities are experiencing rapid population growth, while others are experiencing population decline. Rapid population growth and depopulation both bring challenges, and we are committed to working with partners to support population balance.

I will focus today on the specific challenges that are faced by our rural communities. Let me be clear: there is no easy fix to local population challenges, such as depopulation. That is why we are working collaboratively, with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and local authorities in general, and through structures such as the convention of the Highlands and Islands and the convention of the south of Scotland, to ensure that we have a partnership approach that best addresses our population challenges. Migration is a crucial part of that approach, yet current UK Government immigration policy does not reflect the needs of Scotland’s rural communities.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on a motion entitled “Scotland’s population—Meeting the Needs of our Communities, Economy and Public Services”. I invit...
The Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to open this important debate on Scotland’s population. Scotland is its people: they are our most important resource. People delive...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary has set out some fundamental drivers. Within that, does he acknowledge that inward migration makes a bigger contribution to population ...
Angus Robertson SNP
I agree whole-heartedly. Birth rate issues have been a core part of the deliberations of the Scottish Government and its partners when dealing with the popul...
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am reflecting on the cabinet secretary’s point that population decline in Scotland is far greater than that in the rest of the UK. Does he have any idea wh...
Angus Robertson SNP
No, I do not, but I take the opportunity to invite Mr Lumsden and other members to read the document that we are debating and to reflect on the fact that we ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Angus Robertson SNP
I would like to make some progress on this point. Scotland needs working-age people to settle here in the long term and to raise families here. Our rural co...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives welcome the opportunity to debate the serious and important issue of Scotland’s population. It is no exaggeration to state that we...
Donald Cameron Con
Daniel Johnson has beaten me to it.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Although Donald Cameron is right that the situation is a challenge, and that, potentially, there are failures, it also comes from some successes in prolongin...
Donald Cameron Con
Absolutely. I was not seeking to make any judgment either about the decisions that people make about having children or about their general health and being ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Donald Cameron Con
Can I make a bit of progress? We have always believed that we need to target migration at sectors of the economy in Scotland with labour shortages. In our 2...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) SNP
Does the member accept that the requirement for seasonal agricultural workers exceeds 75,500—it is between 75,000 and 90,000—that the current extension of th...
Donald Cameron Con
I acknowledge the problem, but it is worth noting that the UK Government took action in 2018, and that that action continues. I turn to the Scottish Governm...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I begin by responding to the cabinet secretary’s remarks about the scale and fundamental nature of the challenge. He was absolutely correct. I would put it a...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I think that Daniel Johnson and I were on the same side of the Brexit argument. However, it is important to note that it was estimated that, since Brexit, 3....
Daniel Johnson Lab
I am grateful for that comment, because that was broadly my point. It is also worth noting that the contribution of the European Union towards our net migrat...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will in a moment. First, in relation to the working-age population, we must maximise skills and wages. We cannot allow people simply to have default skill...
Christine Grahame SNP
I must intervene on behalf of employers in the Borders and Midlothian, because they have certainly not lost “cheap labour”. They do not have bus drivers or p...
Daniel Johnson Lab
If that was how my sentiment came across, that was not my intention at all. However, there is an assumption that we can somehow bring people in from overseas...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
Scottish Liberal Democrats recognise the challenge of population decline and agree with the principle that immigration is a good thing that can provide benef...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:00
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Three weeks ago, the Finance and Public Administration Committee received an update from the Scottish Fiscal Commission. Some will remember, perhaps rather t...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I am grateful to the member for giving way, because I rushed through this point. Does the member agree that, fundamentally, this is about work supplementing,...
Kenneth Gibson SNP
I am happy to accept that point of clarification, because that is exactly what I mean. It is about choice, not forcing people to retire at an older age. Many...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I urge Mr Gibson to show respect.
Kenneth Gibson SNP
It has long been recognised that population growth in Scotland will require immigration. The end of freedom of movement within the EU because of a Brexit tha...