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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 29 June 2022

29 Jun 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill

That is possibly the first time that I have heard that point about the budget in relation to pace, which is interesting.

We could do a number of things differently in terms of the administration. We also need to work more closely with other Parliaments in the UK. Like my Conservative colleagues, we will support the Scottish Government’s motion. However, the fact that we have a UK Government that does not consider that a legislative consent motion is needed and a Scottish Government that does shows that there is significant confusion.

Those 313,620 people, who have been led up a hill and left waiting for years and years, are now being told to wait longer for substantial change. The same is true of child disability payment. Despite the process for new applications being fully operational here, safe and secure transfer will not happen until 2023. In addition, the SNP-Green Government has not set out a timetable for attendance allowance.

In the meantime, it is no wonder that there is disagreement between the Governments on what they need consent for, because they have been incapable of working together at pace. I say to the minister that we need to work at pace and together. Instead, the UK Government has created a confused system in which powers have been devolved to Scotland and the Scottish Government has sent some back, has asked the DWP to take care of others and has chosen a few on which to make some progress. It is clearly a messy arrangement that is not helping anyone. Frankly, it seems to me that nobody has a clue and that the Scottish people are paying the price. How on earth can the Governments expect people in Scotland to navigate this if they cannot?

We will support today’s motion, but I stress that I would far prefer to spend parliamentary time on social security legislation that would fundamentally and materially improve the lives of the people of Scotland, instead of spending time debating constitutional intricacies that have been caused by delays and confusion, which have left people without the support that they need. It is not good enough that neither Government can get this right. This is the second time in a week that we have faced the same type of motion and the same constitutional tug of war because neither Government is able to establish who has responsibility for what.

I recognise the policy and ideological differences between the SNP Government at Holyrood and the Tory Government at Westminster, but, although social security remains a shared responsibility, it is of the utmost importance that Governments talk to and engage with each other and stop wasting time on disagreements. That is the best chance that we have of getting things right—and doing so quickly—for the people of Scotland.

16:10  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-05222, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on the Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill, which ...
The Minister for Social Security and Local Government (Ben Macpherson) SNP
This legislative consent motion is in response to the UK Government’s Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill. I appreciate that the debate was...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
It feels a bit like déjà vu, as we had a similar debate on a different social security issue last week. Last week, the minister felt that I was slightly part...
Ben Macpherson SNP
Does the member accept that the devolution of social security benefits is a joint programme of work between the Scottish Government and the UK Government, an...
Jeremy Balfour Con
I accept that the pandemic has been an important factor in the delay, but even before the pandemic, there were statements in the chamber that those benefits ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Let me start with the substance of the motion and the impact on people. This is about people’s lives and terminal illness—it is possibly the time when we nee...
Ben Macpherson SNP
We all want to move to the implementation of the benefits as quickly as possible and to full case transfer, but I again pose, in a constructive spirit, these...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
That is possibly the first time that I have heard that point about the budget in relation to pace, which is interesting. We could do a number of things diff...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I am grateful to members across the chamber for their time and their contributions to the debate. Although the Scottish Government has taken a very different...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the minister for that clarity. I appreciate it. The confusion has resulted because we face such a confused situation. It is incumbent on all of us to...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I agree with the spirit of that, and that is certainly how I engage with UK DWP ministers and Scotland Office ministers on the process. The only alternative...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
That concludes the debate on the Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill—UK Legislation.