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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 26 May 2022

26 May 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security Benefits

That is not what I am suggesting. However, as the committee heard this morning, there will be a two-tier system, particularly for the 38,000 people who are currently on disability living allowance and will be moving to adult disability payment.

It is possible, where there is the will, for the Government to find solutions to those problems. What matters more than anything is that people are not facing DWP systems that do not give them adequate money to live on and that rule people out of access to support because of arbitrary figures such as the 50 per cent rule and the 20m rule. The sooner that we, in Scotland, can do away with that, the better.

At this rate, any substantial changes to eligibility for and the adequacy of adult disability payment will not be in place during this session of Parliament, despite both financial and legal competence having been entirely devolved for years.

The system does not meet children’s needs either. Child poverty remains at shamefully high levels. I engage with third sector organisations, as, I know, the cabinet secretary and the minister do. They have shared stories about families sharing blankets and children sharing their free school meals. People are coming together to support each other while Governments fail to step in. Last week, Aberlour told the Social Justice and Social Security Committee that it sees not relative but absolute child poverty—complete destitution.

The tackling child poverty delivery plan 2022 to 2026 concluded that, with a fair wind and on a good day, we might scrape through the relative poverty target next year. I hope that we do, but the plan also admitted that, even with the same optimistic outlook, the absolute child poverty target for 2023-24 will be missed and 16 per cent of children will remain in destitution.

The Scottish child payment is welcome, as I have said before, but, at its current rate and in its current unfinished state, it does not do enough. Three out of four children living in poverty are not receiving the money that they should be getting from that payment. The clumsiness of the roll-out is costing the poorest children upwards of £5 million a week. The Government blames the DWP but, as I said, the committee has heard that the Government has not asked quickly enough for the information. The SNP made yet another headline-grabbing announcement but has not had the plans to back it up. People deserve and expect better than that.

Then we come to bills. A quarter of people in Scotland are in fuel poverty—a figure that is only going to get worse after Tuesday’s announcements about the fuel price cap. Neither Government is doing enough to address that. Fuel poverty is another example of the Government failing to live up to its rhetoric. The fuel strategy rightly recognises that disabled people of all ages have a higher cost of living as a result of fuel costs, yet, when the Government had the opportunity to extend child winter heating assistance to all disabled people, regardless of age, it did not do that. It had the power but did not use it.

Fuel poverty already affects 619,000 households in Scotland, a number that will increase. People who were already struggling are finding that they cannot make ends meet and cannot pay their bills. Of those households, 218,000 have older people in them. That is why we proposed fully costed plans that would have given people on pension credit £400 to mitigate some of the rises in energy bills. We would have given the same amount to people on carers allowance supplement, child winter heating assistance and council tax reduction.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-04621, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on an update on social security benefits. Members who wish to speak...
The Minister for Social Security and Local Government (Ben Macpherson) SNP
Social security is an important human right. It is a shared investment in building a fairer and better society. None of us knows when we might need it or whe...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Various briefings have come in ahead of the debate, as we will all know, and all of them have pointed to the fact that children are still living in poverty t...
Ben Macpherson SNP
We have answered Pam Duncan-Glancy on that point several times. As she knows, the reason why we cannot extend the Scottish child payment until the end of the...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am grateful to the minister for taking an intervention. Audit Scotland also stated that the implementation costs of new devolved benefits are “not routinel...
Ben Macpherson SNP
We welcome all the recommendations in the Audit Scotland report and will work to implement them, and we will work with the auditors, as we have throughout th...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Members might wish to know that we have some time available to give back for interventions. 15:13
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
Following the sweeping devolution that was delivered through the Scotland Act 2016, the Scottish Parliament now has unprecedented powers and influence over s...
Ben Macpherson SNP
Could Mr Briggs make any practical and realistic suggestions about how we could have gone more quickly? We have introduced new benefits, such as the Scottish...
Miles Briggs Con
We are talking about holding the Government to account and ministers made the specific promise that the new system would be fully in place before the 2021 el...
Ben Macpherson SNP
Mr Briggs has just pointed out a difference in the definition of terminal illness, and, in my opening remarks, I talked about a difference in indefinite awar...
Miles Briggs Con
My point was about the specific criteria for PIP and what seems to be a rebranding of that payment. We need to see where those changes will be, and the minis...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) SNP
Did Miles Briggs agree with the UK Government’s decision to cut the £20 universal credit uplift?
Miles Briggs Con
That is not the point that we are debating today. That was a welcome additional resource that was provided at the start of the pandemic, but we need to conce...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
The devolution of social security was a key moment. It was a chance to be radical, to create a new system and to remove the most undignified and unjust polic...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I pose to Pam Duncan-Glancy the same question that I posed to Miles Briggs. It is very easy for people to say that things should have gone faster and that th...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
It is true that I strongly support the Scottish child payment. There are a number of things that I think could have been done much more quickly. One of the ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison) SNP
I think that the point that the UK minister was making was that, somehow, we should have asked the UK Government’s permission in advance of making increases ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
If the cabinet secretary looks at the Official Report of the committee meeting in question, she will see that the DWP representatives specifically said that ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
Will the member give way on that point?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I will. Can I get the time back, please, Presiding Officer?
The Presiding Officer NPA
You can indeed.
Ben Macpherson SNP
Is Pam Duncan-Glancy suggesting that we should have a two-tier system as we undertake case transfer? That would be the reality if we made changes to the elig...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
That is not what I am suggesting. However, as the committee heard this morning, there will be a two-tier system, particularly for the 38,000 people who are c...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Please conclude, Ms Duncan-Glancy.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
We would have put money in the welfare fund so that people could get the help that they need. The Tory Government in Westminster has always let us down. In ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I know that the minister probably finds me rather curmudgeonly on occasion and a tad critical of the Government’s management of its responsibilities. That is...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I am glad to have a second opportunity to emphasise that I am confident of the robustness of the processes. Recruitment, training and proper investment in ou...
Willie Rennie LD
We will hold the minister to account on that because it is important. Not only I, but all the children and people with disabilities will hold him to account ...
Willie Rennie LD
I am coming to my conclusion. We are nowhere near the full delivery. That is all that I am pointing out. I understand what the minister said about timing—t...