Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 26 May 2022
26 May 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security Benefits
My point was about the specific criteria for PIP and what seems to be a rebranding of that payment. We need to see where those changes will be, and the minister did not outline any of them at committee either.
We also know that the cost to Social Security Scotland of delivering benefits stands at around 10 per cent of total resources compared to 6 per cent for the DWP. Yes, it is a new organisation but, last year alone, Social Security Scotland’s overspend costs were approximately £44 million. The Parliament and members of the committees that are looking at the issue would like further clarity from the Government about how projected future expenditure will be controlled and what its plans are to plug some of the funding gaps.
It is concerning that the costs of setting up Social Security Scotland were more than triple what SNP ministers estimated, and we still have not heard any clear answers on that.
Today’s debate is also an important opportunity to highlight the need for more transparency from ministers.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-04621, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on an update on social security benefits. Members who wish to speak...
The Minister for Social Security and Local Government (Ben Macpherson)
SNP
Social security is an important human right. It is a shared investment in building a fairer and better society. None of us knows when we might need it or whe...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Various briefings have come in ahead of the debate, as we will all know, and all of them have pointed to the fact that children are still living in poverty t...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
We have answered Pam Duncan-Glancy on that point several times. As she knows, the reason why we cannot extend the Scottish child payment until the end of the...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I am grateful to the minister for taking an intervention. Audit Scotland also stated that the implementation costs of new devolved benefits are “not routinel...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
We welcome all the recommendations in the Audit Scotland report and will work to implement them, and we will work with the auditors, as we have throughout th...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Members might wish to know that we have some time available to give back for interventions. 15:13
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Following the sweeping devolution that was delivered through the Scotland Act 2016, the Scottish Parliament now has unprecedented powers and influence over s...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
Could Mr Briggs make any practical and realistic suggestions about how we could have gone more quickly? We have introduced new benefits, such as the Scottish...
Miles Briggs
Con
We are talking about holding the Government to account and ministers made the specific promise that the new system would be fully in place before the 2021 el...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
Mr Briggs has just pointed out a difference in the definition of terminal illness, and, in my opening remarks, I talked about a difference in indefinite awar...
Miles Briggs
Con
My point was about the specific criteria for PIP and what seems to be a rebranding of that payment. We need to see where those changes will be, and the minis...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
SNP
Did Miles Briggs agree with the UK Government’s decision to cut the £20 universal credit uplift?
Miles Briggs
Con
That is not the point that we are debating today. That was a welcome additional resource that was provided at the start of the pandemic, but we need to conce...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
The devolution of social security was a key moment. It was a chance to be radical, to create a new system and to remove the most undignified and unjust polic...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
I pose to Pam Duncan-Glancy the same question that I posed to Miles Briggs. It is very easy for people to say that things should have gone faster and that th...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
It is true that I strongly support the Scottish child payment. There are a number of things that I think could have been done much more quickly. One of the ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison)
SNP
I think that the point that the UK minister was making was that, somehow, we should have asked the UK Government’s permission in advance of making increases ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
If the cabinet secretary looks at the Official Report of the committee meeting in question, she will see that the DWP representatives specifically said that ...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
Will the member give way on that point?
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I will. Can I get the time back, please, Presiding Officer?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You can indeed.
Ben Macpherson
SNP
Is Pam Duncan-Glancy suggesting that we should have a two-tier system as we undertake case transfer? That would be the reality if we made changes to the elig...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
That is not what I am suggesting. However, as the committee heard this morning, there will be a two-tier system, particularly for the 38,000 people who are c...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Please conclude, Ms Duncan-Glancy.
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
We would have put money in the welfare fund so that people could get the help that they need. The Tory Government in Westminster has always let us down. In ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
I know that the minister probably finds me rather curmudgeonly on occasion and a tad critical of the Government’s management of its responsibilities. That is...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
I am glad to have a second opportunity to emphasise that I am confident of the robustness of the processes. Recruitment, training and proper investment in ou...
Willie Rennie
LD
We will hold the minister to account on that because it is important. Not only I, but all the children and people with disabilities will hold him to account ...
Willie Rennie
LD
I am coming to my conclusion. We are nowhere near the full delivery. That is all that I am pointing out. I understand what the minister said about timing—t...