Hansard

The Convener (Claire Baker) Lab

Good morning and welcome to the 14th meeting in 2022 of the Economy and Fair Work Committee. Our first item of business continues our evidence gathering in o...

Martin Avila (Community Enterprise in Scotland)

I thank the committee for giving me the chance to speak this morning. How we engage the less listened to communities is a wicked problem. Communities in whi...

The Convener Lab

Martin Avila has referred to the evidence that we heard last week. I do not know whether Dr Orr has had a chance to look at last week’s evidence, which we to...

Dr Allison Orr (University of Glasgow)

I thank the committee for inviting me along. There is certainly an issue with regard to resourcing in planning departments. They are expected to take on more...

The Convener Lab

I come to Pauline Smith. Would you say a bit about the development trust organisations, how your members engage with communities and how important they are w...

Pauline Smith (Development Trusts Association Scotland)

Our members are from rural and urban locations, so they differ quite drastically from one area to the next. You spoke about the less represented individuals...

The Convener Lab

I will allow other members to explore some of those issues in more depth in a moment. The committee went to visit Midsteeple Quarter. The community ownership...

Pauline Smith

Yes—that would absolutely be helpful. Obviously, I am passionate about community ownership support. There should be a go-to support provider, but there are o...

The Convener Lab

I bring in Maggie Chapman, to be followed by Fiona Hyslop.

Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green

Good morning. Thank you for joining us. Pauline Smith mentioned community wealth building. As you will be aware, the Scottish Government has committed to in...

Pauline Smith

We are meeting Ted Howard this afternoon: he is coming to us. He is the guru of community wealth building and is doing a tour at the moment. One pitfall wou...

Maggie Chapman Green

Dr Orr, we are talking about creating liveable, vibrant and thriving town centres that support the communities that live in and around them. What are the opp...

Dr Orr

In some of the cities that I have studied, there has been a change in the number of residential units, but communities and public services have not kept pace...

Maggie Chapman Green

Martin, what opportunities are there to drive community enterprise and engagement through legislation?

Martin Avila

If it is okay, I will speak first about the idea of pitfalls. There can be a suggestion of false equivalence between community-run enterprises and general bu...

Fiona Hyslop (Linlithgow) (SNP) SNP

Good morning. We have heard that every town is unique and that any solution has to be unique to the town, and Pauline Smith noted that we need to have strong...

Pauline Smith

I think that the ball lands with us. We need to work with BIDs, development trusts and CEIS to support and pool our expertise in general. We ask communities ...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

What about working with councils?

Pauline Smith

Our community ownership support service and our community shares departments have gone out to local authorities to engage in training—well, we might want to ...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

Martin Avila said that more is needed in terms of community development, and we have heard calls for council-based activity, town champions and more planners...

Martin Avila

Both—everywhere.

Fiona Hyslop SNP

I know, but you will have to—

Martin Avila

That is the challenge that colleagues around the table face. We have limited resources and we have to understand where to direct them. I know that this is ...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

I move to Allison Orr. When it comes to your concerns about rentier experience, we are, potentially, going to move to an economic model in which there is com...

Dr Orr

When it comes to enterprises, cultural change among landowners is important. We have started to see that cultural change, through the pandemic and even befor...

Martin Avila

May I come in on one point?

The Convener Lab

If it is brief. We are trying to make progress.

Martin Avila

Yes. Sorry, convener. We have to end false equivalence. Some of the previous Scottish Government rental guarantee schemes were there for developers to be ab...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

So do you recommend rental guarantees for social enterprises that provide housing in town centres?

Martin Avila

Yes. Community Land Scotland produced a great report called “Urban Dwelling: A Vision for Urban Community-led Housing in Scotland” that made recommendations ...