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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 11 May 2022

11 May 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Violent Crime
Nicoll, Audrey SNP Aberdeen South and North Kincardine Watch on SPTV

I will come back to the member if I have time at the end of my speech.

Let us look at homicide. The Scottish Government national statistics publication on homicide records 55 homicides in Scotland in 2021, which is a decrease of 10 from the previous year and the lowest number since comparable data became available in 1976. By contrast, in England, 691 homicides were recorded in the same period, which is an increase of 14 per cent on the previous year.

On police funding, despite the cuts to its central budget from Westminster, Scotland has around 32 officers per 10,000 of the population compared with around 23 per 10,000 of the population in England and Wales. They are also better paid. In England, an officer’s starting salary is £21,500 compared with almost £27,000 in Scotland.

On police numbers, in the Queen’s speech, we heard all about the UK Government’s commitment to put 20,000 extra police on the streets. What was omitted was that the UK Government is simply replenishing the 22,000 officers that it cut in England and Wales between 2010 and 2019.

The motion refers to “bail and release”, and, as Pauline McNeill mentioned, only this morning, members of the Criminal Justice Committee visited the Wise Group and heard powerful testimony about the life-changing and life-saving throughcare work of mentors supporting people who are serving short-term sentences. We heard that

“people want to change, they just don’t know how”.

We also heard that

“mentors inspire to help others aspire”.

One customer, reflecting on his own childhood and pathway into prison, said:

“it was always going to happen”.

I express my thanks to Charlie Martin and all at the Wise Group for hosting the committee.

We should contrast that with the narrative in yesterday’s Queen’s speech about tagging burglars, robbers and thieves; putting rapists behind bars; and pinning criminals to the scene of their crime—hardly a contemporary 21st century approach; more “Life on Mars”. There was not a shred of a mention of prevention—something that Jamie Greene talked about—and there was no mention of Covid.

Not for one second should we downplay the challenges that the justice sector faces. I welcome the new vision for justice, which sets out our contemporary and wide-ranging strategy, which has trauma-informed and, more importantly, trauma-responsive approaches and the needs of victims at its heart. Given the election results across Scotland last Friday, it seems that the people of Scotland do, too.

I mentioned Scottish Prison Arts and Creative Enterprises, which provides therapeutic opportunities for prisoners. I draw on the words of Professor Fergus McNeill, who said:

“if imprisonment and release are to be crafted around ‘Unlocking Potential’ and ‘Transforming Lives’, then we need creativity to be at the heart of the process—reaching into prisons to support personal change, and reaching out of prisons to support social change.”

The Conservatives might call that soft justice. I call it doing the right thing.

16:43  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-04320, in the name of Jamie Greene, on tackling violent crime. I would be grateful if members who wish to...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome Keith Brown to the chamber. I suspect that his ears have been burning for the past two hours. I want to start my comments by saying two things abo...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I now call on Keith Brown to speak to and move amendment S6M-04320.2. You have up to six minutes, cabinet secretary. 16:17
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans (Keith Brown) SNP
I start by reflecting that the motion from the Conservatives conflicts with this Parliament’s majority position in supporting the new justice vision at its l...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank for you inviting me to make an intervention. That is news to me. I will have to go back and look into what you said, and if it is correct I will come b...
Keith Brown SNP
I am happy to pass on the press statement; it was on three pages of popular newspapers and was also repeated by two of his colleagues. One of those colleague...
Russell Findlay Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Keith Brown SNP
I do not have much time, but I will take a brief intervention.
Russell Findlay Con
It relates to the very point that the cabinet secretary made. I now remember the exact information to which he referred. The issue was due to duff informatio...
Keith Brown SNP
I commend Russell Findlay for that apology, which is received in the spirit in which it was given. The Conservative motion highlights police numbers. I am h...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Keith Brown SNP
I do not have time, unfortunately. We must rethink how we use custody in Scotland. Our consultation on bail and release was the first step in a wider discus...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Please conclude, cabinet secretary.
Keith Brown SNP
Let me conclude by highlighting, once again, the strong support for the Scottish Government’s strategy. It is endorsed by the national justice board of justi...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
The Tory motion has a lot of important issues packed into it, and it is impossible to address all those very serious issues in five minutes. We agree with ma...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I recall Liam Kerr choosing to kick off his time as the Tory justice spokesperson in the previous parliamentary session by leading a debate on restorative ju...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I wonder whether the member will agree with me that the war about numbers that takes place on that side of the chamber is unsatisfactory because it masks the...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Mr Johnson, in future, could you face your microphone?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I apologise.
Liam McArthur LD
I heard Mr Johnson and I certainly agree with him. Help to reduce the likelihood of reoffending and increase the likelihood of making a positive contributio...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 16:34
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am honoured to be contributing to the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, and I fully support the motion lodged by my colleague, Jamie Greene. ...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
Yesterday, two events drew my attention, both of which are relevant, in their own way, to this afternoon’s justice debate. The first was the Queen’s speech, ...
Jamie Greene Con
Will the member give way?
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I will come back to the member if I have time at the end of my speech. Let us look at homicide. The Scottish Government national statistics publication on h...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I believe that we should be candid in this chamber. Protecting people from violent crime is a priority for any Government, yet, under the SNP Government, the...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary said that there must be no tolerance of misogyny in our justice system. The reports this week were sickening, and I put on record that ...
Jamie Greene Con
The context is in this table, in black and white. These are the Government’s statistics on rising crime in the past decade: sexual crime is up, sexual assaul...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The member is right—those statistics are bad—so he should come up with a solution. What are the alternatives? What Jamie Greene should have highlighted far m...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
First, I thank Daniel Johnson and Liam McArthur. I do not agree with everything that they said, but their speeches were nuanced and thoughtful, and did not s...