Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 11 May 2022
11 May 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Violent Crime
Yesterday, two events drew my attention, both of which are relevant, in their own way, to this afternoon’s justice debate. The first was the Queen’s speech, which outlined the UK Government’s plans to cut crime. The second, which I attended—and this was perhaps the more pleasurable of the two—was the Scottish Prison Arts and Creative Enterprises event in the Scottish Parliament, which showcased the art and creative work of prisoners. The range of work that was displayed was inspiring and humbling, reflecting the fact that there is a rich body of creative talent in our prisons. I will return to those points.
The motion offers a list of non-contextualised random statements that extol the woes of violent crime, police numbers, underfunding, community sentencing, bail and release and “dangerous criminals”. The issue is serious, and I want to pick up on a couple of those points.
The motion refers to violent crime being
“at its highest level in a decade”.
As we have already heard, according to the Scottish crime and justice survey, crime in Scotland is down by 40 per cent since 2007 and is at one of the lowest levels since recording began.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-04320, in the name of Jamie Greene, on tackling violent crime. I would be grateful if members who wish to...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome Keith Brown to the chamber. I suspect that his ears have been burning for the past two hours. I want to start my comments by saying two things abo...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I now call on Keith Brown to speak to and move amendment S6M-04320.2. You have up to six minutes, cabinet secretary. 16:17
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans (Keith Brown)
SNP
I start by reflecting that the motion from the Conservatives conflicts with this Parliament’s majority position in supporting the new justice vision at its l...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Thank for you inviting me to make an intervention. That is news to me. I will have to go back and look into what you said, and if it is correct I will come b...
Keith Brown
SNP
I am happy to pass on the press statement; it was on three pages of popular newspapers and was also repeated by two of his colleagues. One of those colleague...
Russell Findlay
Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Keith Brown
SNP
I do not have much time, but I will take a brief intervention.
Russell Findlay
Con
It relates to the very point that the cabinet secretary made. I now remember the exact information to which he referred. The issue was due to duff informatio...
Keith Brown
SNP
I commend Russell Findlay for that apology, which is received in the spirit in which it was given. The Conservative motion highlights police numbers. I am h...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Keith Brown
SNP
I do not have time, unfortunately. We must rethink how we use custody in Scotland. Our consultation on bail and release was the first step in a wider discus...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Please conclude, cabinet secretary.
Keith Brown
SNP
Let me conclude by highlighting, once again, the strong support for the Scottish Government’s strategy. It is endorsed by the national justice board of justi...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
The Tory motion has a lot of important issues packed into it, and it is impossible to address all those very serious issues in five minutes. We agree with ma...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I recall Liam Kerr choosing to kick off his time as the Tory justice spokesperson in the previous parliamentary session by leading a debate on restorative ju...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
I wonder whether the member will agree with me that the war about numbers that takes place on that side of the chamber is unsatisfactory because it masks the...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Mr Johnson, in future, could you face your microphone?
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I apologise.
Liam McArthur
LD
I heard Mr Johnson and I certainly agree with him. Help to reduce the likelihood of reoffending and increase the likelihood of making a positive contributio...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We move to the open debate. 16:34
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I am honoured to be contributing to the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, and I fully support the motion lodged by my colleague, Jamie Greene. ...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
SNP
Yesterday, two events drew my attention, both of which are relevant, in their own way, to this afternoon’s justice debate. The first was the Queen’s speech, ...
Jamie Greene
Con
Will the member give way?
Audrey Nicoll
SNP
I will come back to the member if I have time at the end of my speech. Let us look at homicide. The Scottish Government national statistics publication on h...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
I believe that we should be candid in this chamber. Protecting people from violent crime is a priority for any Government, yet, under the SNP Government, the...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
The cabinet secretary said that there must be no tolerance of misogyny in our justice system. The reports this week were sickening, and I put on record that ...
Jamie Greene
Con
The context is in this table, in black and white. These are the Government’s statistics on rising crime in the past decade: sexual crime is up, sexual assaul...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
The member is right—those statistics are bad—so he should come up with a solution. What are the alternatives? What Jamie Greene should have highlighted far m...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
First, I thank Daniel Johnson and Liam McArthur. I do not agree with everything that they said, but their speeches were nuanced and thoughtful, and did not s...