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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 09 March 2022

09 Mar 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Justice for Families (Milly’s Law)

This has been an interesting debate, with some informed and constructive contributions. I thank Anas Sarwar for the way in which he moved the motion, and I thank Katy Clark, Christine Grahame and Jamie Greene, who all brought different dimensions to the debate with their contributions.

I have a fear of heights—I am always worried that my glasses will fall off and I will be stranded—but nothing has scared me witless more in life than the wellbeing of my children. That sentiment will be shared by every single parent in the chamber. From the minute that a child becomes part of someone’s life, there is a contract that they will never forget.

As a child, we expect that we will see our parents pass—that is part of the contract of life—but we would never expect to have to deal with the loss of our own child. If people want to know what that grief looks like, they need only look at television pictures of parents in Ukraine. Fathers are having to send their children away while they go back to fight, and as mothers try to flee, their child is shot dead before them on the street—the grief is writ large. Although it does not make it any easier, they understand that the situation is due to the boot of a reckless dictator. There will be parents here who, off camera, feel exactly that grief when a child is knocked down by a car, or when a child dies of an incurable illness. However, when a child dies, and the institution of the healthcare system seems predisposed to deny us the knowledge of why it happened, that is totally unacceptable.

What worries me in part is that we have moved to a compensation culture, in which accountability is transferred and becomes “Here’s money instead.” In 2007, when I first spoke in a health debate in the chamber, the NHS paid out £18.93 million in compensation. The compensation figure for last year was revealed yesterday—it is £61.59 million.

Constituents have come to me about the death of a child or a parent, and they did not understand, or could not accept, the sequence of events that led to that loss. They have gone through a process that I can only describe as a massaging and managing of their issue, at the end of which they were told, “Of course, you can apply for compensation.” In tears, they did, eventually, but that did not answer the fundamental questions. They want to know why it happened, and they very often ask, “Is this going to happen to somebody else?” It seems to me that the transfer to a compensation culture involves an avoidance of both accountability and the determination to ensure that it will not happen again.

Back in 2019, I first raised the issue of Milly Main with the First Minister. That came on the back of an understanding that our NHS maintenance backlog was some £900 million at that point. We then asked what health inspections had been taking place and learned that the number had declined from 38 to just 14 in that year. I do not know whether that situation has now been reversed. There was, I think, an acceptance by Jeane Freeman that public confidence had been shaken, but as the months went on and the questions continued to be asked, there was a surfeit of embraces, clutching and condolences. We heard the phrase “My heart goes out to”, but there was no material advance on the fundamental questions of what happened, what was being done about it and why we did not know.

I applaud Anas Sarwar’s tenacity in pushing the issue. He and I have relied on brave souls telling us things that people did not want us to know. It is only because we found out those things that we have been able to drive the whole argument forward.

Let me be absolutely clear: I think that we should be supporting and encouraging Anas Sarwar’s bill. This is 2022, and we have to get to a point at which we do not simply say to people, “Look, rather than pursuing this, here’s some cash. You won’t actually ever find out what’s happening and we’re not ever really going to tell you. In fact, there is an institutional willingness to club together to try and hide behind a screen.” That must end. That is why I support Milly’s law, and I commend Anas Sarwar for his efforts to bring forward a bill.

16:00  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-03491, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on Milly’s law—justice for families. I ask members who wish to speak i...
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Two years ago, I stood up in Parliament and exposed the failures at the Queen Elizabeth university hospital. What has been uncovered since is a human tragedy...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I thank Anas Sarwar and Scottish Labour for bringing this very important debate to the chamber. I will address the points in the proposal that he has introdu...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
What the cabinet secretary has just said flies in the face of people’s experience. What sanctions would apply to health boards for not following the law?
Humza Yousaf SNP
I accept fully Jackie Baillie’s point that, on occasion, the processes that we have put in place are not followed; I have said that already. When I have disc...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of interests, which states that I am a practising NHS doctor. The Scottish Conservatives welcome Anas ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I would be happy to look into that issue in more detail. I know of the issue because—far from it being shrouded in secrecy—the health board issued a press re...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I am talking about the internal walls, not the cladding—Interruption.—Was that before December’s debate, when ministers doubled down to defend the health boa...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am pleased to speak for my party in the debate and I thank Anas Sarwar for all his work with families and victims to shine a spotlight on the important iss...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 15:24
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am glad that my party has brought the debate to the chamber. It is the right thing to do, and passing the law would, equally, be the right thing to do. Tha...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this important debate. I, too, associate myself with the comments that were made at the outset, and I thank eve...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The debate is about the fundamental relationship between the individual and the state and about whether Governments and public institutions have a duty of tr...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I hope that the member gets her time back for this intervention—she is making an interesting and important point. The problem is that, in an inquiry such as ...
Katy Clark Lab
The member raises an important point, which I do not have time to come back to in detail in this debate, but I hope that we will be able to explore it on ano...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Ms Clark, I must ask you to wind up.
Katy Clark Lab
I very much hope that the Parliament will look sympathetically on the motion.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you—I am afraid that we are very tight for time. 15:37
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I start by sending my condolences to anyone affected by the tragic events at the Queen Elizabeth hospital in Glasgow. Nothing that we say or do in the chambe...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Let me first express my condolences to Milly’s family. I have a 10-year-old granddaughter, the same age as Milly was when she died, and have similar images o...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
My thoughts are with all those whose care has fallen short of the high standards that we hold for our public services. Fighting to have your voice heard can ...
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I begin by offering my condolences to Milly Main’s family for the circumstances that have led us here, and expressing my admiration for the courage and deter...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the closing speeches. 15:55
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
This has been an interesting debate, with some informed and constructive contributions. I thank Anas Sarwar for the way in which he moved the motion, and I t...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I think that this is the second time that I have said this in as many months, Presiding Officer, but it is a genuine pleasure to follow Jackson Carlaw’s cont...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
It cannot be acceptable that, in today’s Scotland, bereaved families should have to fight tooth and nail for justice for their loved ones when the unthinkabl...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That concludes the debate on Milly’s law: justice for families. There will be a brief pause before the next item of business.